Orthodox writer Natalya Sukhinina. Natalya Sukhinina: “Everything in my books is true

Modern people, including many Orthodox Christians, were brought up, or rather, intoxicated by romanticism. Love is certainly blind for them, and they crave and seek this blindness. The fact that this view of life becomes a source of constant suffering does not seem to bother people - they enthusiastically strive to “tread on the same rake.” However, a Christian should not forget about sobriety. It was the desire to help young people take a sober look at starting a family that prompted the St. Petersburg priest Alexander Diaghilev and his wife Lyubov to create the “Happiness Forever” program - a kind of preparatory course to the sacrament of Marriage.

It must be said that the St. Petersburg Metropolis is the first to create a family sector educational programs at the Department of Religious Education and Catechesis. For Father Alexander and Mother Lyubov, “Happiness Forever” is a continuation of their first project, a center for helping families experiencing a relationship crisis, “Marital Meetings.”

Lyubov Diaghileva: The principle of the “Happiness Forever” program is similar to the principle of the “Marital Encounters” program: classes are taught by married couples who are not professional psychologists. They share their experiences with young people and focus their thinking on a specific topic that is addressed in a particular session. And the participation of a priest is mandatory. Registration is now underway for those interested, and the program will take place during Lent. We have specifically chosen this special period of the year to indulge in spiritual reflection and help those wishing to prepare for the wedding that will take place after Easter.

Archpriest Alexander Diaghilev: According to tradition - to Krasnaya Gorka. This will be Thomas Week. Of course, couples will not be required to get married at this particular time; they can do so whenever they see fit. I can immediately say that sometimes the results of the meetings we organize can be the opposite - people decide that they are not ready for family life. But this is also good - better than if they, having gotten married, then get divorced.

L.D.: While working on the “Matrimonial Meetings” project, we were faced with the fact that people say: “What a pity that we didn’t know a lot earlier.” It turns out that you also need to prepare for family life. The program consists of nine classes that will take place once a week on Sundays. This is not just talking about the Christian understanding of marriage, it is teaching the basics of communication. And the young couple can learn dialogue on practical tasks. Learn about the principles of dialogue: listening before speaking; share, not argue; understand, not evaluate; forgive.

Each lesson is devoted to a separate topic. For example, the topic “Values”. A gradation of values ​​that exist in our lives is given, and the levels of conflicts are explained. For example, you can tolerate each other’s habits, but if people have a conflict of values, then it is obvious that they will not be able to live their whole lives “in the same harness.” Or here’s the biblical one: “a man will leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife” - the theme of separation from parents. The topic of having children, the question of whether it is possible to plan children in Orthodox family. Here, of course, we focus on the “Fundamentals of the Social Concept of the Russian Orthodox Church.” According to this document, non-abortive contraceptives are allowed in Orthodox marriages. This is a revelation for many; many believe that fulfilling the will of God is to give birth to as many children as possible, and man cannot interfere with this.

O. A.D.: Saint John Chrysostom, interpreting the 7th chapter of the 1st Epistle to the Corinthians, emphasizes that intimate physical relationships between husband and wife exist not only for the sake of childbearing, but also to avoid fornication.

L.D.: Another topic is the houses from which people left. Creating new family, the person takes with him those family traditions, in which he grew up. And he tries to break his bride or groom, declaring: “We will have it, as is customary in my family.” But it is very important to build new house, and people must agree on how they will build it.

O. A.D.: One of the reasons for many conflicts is: “Why do you cook soup differently than my mother?”

L.D.: We suggest thinking, for example, about what will happen if one of the spouses gets sick, what will happen if it turns out that the spouses for some reason cannot have sexual relations. This is the basis of responsibility that everyone should have when starting a family. We need to learn to understand that we are different, that we need to accept each other, and not break each other. Specific communication tools for building dialogue are provided. And of course, a lot is said about God.

Where did the method itself come from?

L.D.: We took the method from the Catholic movement “Matrimonial Meetings,” but just like our program of assistance to families experiencing a crisis of the same name with this movement, it was reworked in the spirit of the Orthodox Church.

O. A.D.: Since there is a ready-made, proven method, we did not have to “reinvent the wheel.” We took this method as a basis with the consent of the organizers of the above-mentioned Catholic movement. We had experience - we watched how it all happened with them.

L.D.: If we already have preparation for the sacrament of Baptism in most parishes, then it speaks a lot about the need to prepare for Wedding His Holiness Patriarch Kirill, but this is rarely implemented in any way. The good thing about our program is that it’s not just catechesis—all areas of family life are addressed.

O. A.D.: Each topic is examined from a biblical perspective. Examples are given from Holy Scripture, from the patristic heritage. I want to emphasize that this is not just some kind of psychological training, but a church form of working with future family. This is the business of the Church. During the program we are supposed to pray that the Lord will lead the people who come to us in His way. So that if this marriage is possible, it will take place, and if this is some kind of temptation, so that people understand this and go their separate ways. You need to understand that many people get married thinking primarily about the topic of sex - this turns out to be almost the main motive. And what will happen then - “well, we’ll figure it out somehow later.” And, unfortunately, even parents often don’t tell young people anything about this. Topics related to money, real estate, and much more are not discussed in advance. The theme of the Creator’s plan for man and woman is also raised, that both man and woman are the image of God.

L.D.: Ah main topic- What is love? After all, in modern society It is believed that love is just an emotion. So it flared up for one, then stopped, flared up for another... We talk about love as a position, as a decision. And the Source of love is the Lord. If I decide that I am starting a family, then this is once and for all. My love has become scarce - I cry out to God. But I cannot change my decision.

In theory, preparation for the sacrament of Baptism should be mandatory. Is your program or others like it intended to be mandatory for Orthodox Christians wishing to get married?

L.D.: It is in this form that such preparation, of course, cannot be mandatory. But in some version, a catechetical conversation before the wedding must be held in all parishes. And our program is only desirable - this is also a conscious decision: to attend nine classes.

O. A.D.: If we take the Catholic experience, then, as far as I know, they have a mandatory six-month training. But they also only offer this form. But Catholics have this: it is mandatory at the parishes of the bride and groom for three Sundays It is announced that so-and-so is planning to marry, and the question is asked whether anyone has any objections to this marriage. And on the third Sunday it says: “Either now you express these objections, or you must forget about them.”

What issues turn out to be the most pressing, the most dangerous for the relationships of program participants?

O. A.D.: We are just starting the “Happiness Forever” program, and it’s too early to talk about it. Judging by the “Matrimonial Encounters” program, these are issues related to the sphere of feelings. But we try to persuade: “Even if it seems to you now that no continuation of the relationship is possible, still reach the end of the program before calling it a day.”

L.D.: Those who are just about to get married do not yet have long-standing conflicts, but it may turn out like this: what is very important for one is not important for the other. Conflicts always arise when we are not ready for dialogue.

O. A.D.: I’ll give a small example, since in the program we give examples from our experience: now it seems funny, but one of the painful topics when my mother and I were just starting our married life was mushrooms. In the mother’s family, they don’t wash them - if the mushrooms are good, they put them in a frying pan, fry and eat them. And in my family, traditionally, before frying, mushrooms were always thoroughly washed and boiled. And since I knew that you can be poisoned by mushrooms, when I saw a different technology for preparing them, it gave me a shock, I felt the danger that they could poison not only me, but also everyone who would eat these mushrooms. And for about two years we argued every time we cooked mushrooms.

Many people are not ready to discuss intimate topics - how do you deal with this?

O. A.D.: With us, no one brings intimate topics to the general public - we treat this with care. All discussion of an intimate topic occurs only between two people. This is on normal psychological training everyone has to tell their story. The technique we adopted is unique in that it is very gentle.

L.D.: First, we give our testimony: we say how the Orthodox Church looks at the relationship between a man and a woman. Then the young people are given a task, and they go in pairs to different corners of the audience and talk only to each other. Nobody then forces them to tell what they agreed on.

There is an opinion that trying to decide something in advance, before getting married, is a kind of marriage contract, and that such pragmatism is incompatible with real feelings.

L.D.: The fact is that many issues, including everyday ones, will face every family. The problem will also arise that people are still different. We invite you to openly look at our differences and come to an agreement. When unprepared people encounter this difference, they believe that they are not suitable for each other and it is better for them to separate. And we explain: “Even if you are different, think, feel differently, you can still be a family.”

O. A.D.: The Apostle Paul in the 12th chapter of the 1st Epistle to the Corinthians says that each of us has our own gifts of the Holy Spirit. And one of the tasks of spiritual life is to humbly accept: something has been given to me, but something has not been given to me, but can be given to my loved one. Nowadays, when they talk about a man and a woman, about the family, in the context of feminism they raise the issue of equality and so on. In fact, there is no equality in the relationship between a man and a woman. Different cannot be equal. It's not a matter of who is more and who is less - there is such a concept: complementarity. And this complementarity, both at the physiological level and at the level of spiritual gifts, on the one hand, implies that together people can do much more than each of them individually, on the other hand, it reminds them that they are different. And the cause of conflicts and misunderstandings often turns out to be precisely what can actually give people enormous potential. When you accept who you are and who you are close person, and how you can use this for common benefit, life is transformed.

I first saw Father Alexander Diaghilev from St. Petersburg in the summer of 2014 at an international forum. His speech about “Matrimonial Meetings” already “hooked”, but he was able to talk with the priest only at the XXIII Christmas Readings, at which he made a report “The Problem of Divorce and Methods of Counteraction.” Those who want to get acquainted with the experience of Father Alexander and improve relationships in their own family can take part in the “Family Dialogue” program in St. Petersburg from April 24 to 26 or from November 13 to 15, 2015. It is also planned to travel to Astana from May 15 to 17.

- Father Alexander, divorces have swept many countries of the world. Have you found a method to prevent them?

The fact is that in our programs we do not do anything for people. We are only witnesses to the dialogue in the family. We share our knowledge with people, and they receive this tool - dialogue. Whether they use it or not depends only on them. We understand the limitations of our powers. Our job is not to act as teachers, but to live in dialogue ourselves and share this with others. It depends on the diligence of the participants themselves, and not on us, how they will work these two days in the program, and what results they will leave with.

- How did the idea of ​​“Matrimonial Meetings” come about?

In fact, this movement was born in Poland in 1977. More than 35 years ago, the married couple Jerzy and Irena Grzybowski tried to put into practice the work of a Catholic priest from Spain, Gabriel Calvo. Back in the 1950s, he began giving lectures for families in crisis, faced with the fact that families were breaking up, people were asking priests for help, but it was unclear how to help them. Later, he realized that lectures were ineffective, that it was better to organize on-site seminars for families, where spouses would not so much listen to some teachings, but would be able to independently, without witnesses, talk to each other about accumulated problems. But they need help - to suggest how to properly share painful topics without hurting each other even more. Jerzy and Irena Grzybowski worked on this idea until the smallest details: how to organize such trips, what to talk about with spouses, what topics to raise and in what order. And now the centers of the Catholic association they created can be found in many Catholic dioceses in Europe and America. And our Orthodox association is only four years old. Currently, a permanent diocesan center has been created in St. Petersburg, and thanks to the Christmas readings and other events organized by departments of the Moscow Patriarchate, priests and families from other regions who want to create similar centers in their dioceses began to come to our program. So we began to grow and expand.

- Why did you choose this particular direction of activity?

Outwardly everything was pious, but in practice there were endless quibbles and complaints. I snapped back, then repented. I didn't want to go home

We didn’t choose, it chose us. We didn’t think about any global projects, we just went through crises and misunderstandings ourselves, we were looking for different ways and found “Matrimonial Encounters.” It helped us as spouses, as ordinary people. Now it’s simply impossible not to share this. I wouldn't say that we had very critical situation, God bless. I have seen in practice more than once how far a crisis in a family can go. But our situation was also quite painful and, unfortunately, common. It seems that outwardly everything is pious: the priest, the mother, the kids, the house, everything is fine, but in practice I remember that there were endless quibbles, complaints that I did not understand, which irritated me very much. I snapped back, then repented. I didn’t want to go home, especially since the priest will always find something to do at the parish. I could make an appointment with people for 11 pm, when they really asked me to talk to them, to confess them in detail. So I could easily come home at one in the morning, when everyone was already asleep, and leave at seven in the morning, when everyone was still asleep. So I tried to avoid difficult situations when you approach the door, you ring the bell, the door opens, and immediately something starts. But for some reason this alienation did not solve the problem. I said: “I’m not touching you anyway, what else do you want from me?” But in fact, the family needed me, and I didn’t understand it. Once we talked, we had a fight, the second time we tried to talk, we had a fight. And the number of topics that we tried not to talk about again, so as to avoid another scandal, was constantly accumulating.

How familiar this is! What happened to you is what happens in many families. My husband and I also had grievances and misunderstandings accumulating for years, but we were never able to sit down to talk. There was neither a psychologist nor a confessor to figure it all out. Did you have any conflicts even before your ordination?

I became a priest two years after we got married. But the conflicts, of course, began before the ordination. I remember very well that feeling - the burning in my soul when we had just gotten married. As we left the church, our souls rejoiced. However, then this light began to go out - with each successive unpleasant story, after mutual claims and grievances. I did not know how to express my feelings at all, that is, I did not understand at all why this was necessary. When my wife tried to talk, I began to find fault with the words, that is, to analyze logically: “Yeah, she just told me this, this, and this.” For example, she says: “Go away, I don’t want to see you.” I took it literally: “She wants me to pack my things and leave.” And then I started thinking: “Where am I going to go now? Where will I sleep this night? In fact, she just wanted to say with these words that she was very offended, but if I had packed my things and really left, I would have offended her even more. In general, when the fire in my soul almost went out, life became an ordinary routine, for me this was a very alarming symptom, because I understood that something wrong was happening. There was also a very difficult financial situation. As a priest, I was paid very little in the parish where I served, and my manhood was infringed. My wife, being a lawyer, received much more than me at that time. I didn’t blame her for anything, rather I blamed myself for not being able to realize myself as a man. But the priest does not have the right to change the parish at his own discretion, as a common person, who, if he is underpaid, can quit and get a job elsewhere. The priest is transferred by order of the bishop, and just like that, even if he is not very happy with the arrival, he cannot leave. I tried to lead the parish active work, but she removed me even more from the family, while no one appreciated my efforts. This situation plus conflicts - all this put a lot of pressure on me. As a Christian, I intended to endure further, that is, I drove away thoughts of divorce if they arose. But it cannot be said that we lived in family happiness. These external and internal factors were pressing. When we had some kind of conflict, it always seemed to me that my wife wanted to reproach me precisely because I could not provide my family with their daily bread. The thought of it was simply exhausting.

- And how did you get out of this situation?

We have been invited to “Matrimonial Meetings” for quite a long time, since the Catholic center in St. Petersburg has existed since 2002. These events were held for both Catholics and Orthodox Christians. Our friends visited there and invited us, but we still didn’t get ready. When in Once again They invited me, I didn’t even think that my wife would agree. I simply said: “Our name is. Would you like to go? And she: “Come on, let’s go!” What do we have to lose!” I had absolutely no idea where we were going, I asked: “Maybe we should buy some kebab or tomatoes?” I thought it was some kind of country party, a weekend in nature, I was expecting something like that. It turned out that this was something else, much deeper, more serious. I remember that by the end of these two and a half days of the program our relationship had changed so much that that light, which seemed to have gone out forever, suddenly lit up again. I remember after the end of the program we were driving together in the car, and my soul was rejoicing, as if it had just come from a wedding.

- But what happened in these two days?

We were able to talk through a lot complex topics our relationships, which seemed to be taboo, many of our problems. It turned out, for example, that my wife does not reproach me at all for my low salary, and although it was really hard for her because of this, she had to work a lot, nevertheless she understands everything perfectly and does not judge. Some perspective in life opened up, it became clear that we can not just live together and endure, but live and make each other happy. The natural reaction was: why don’t we have this? Why doesn’t anyone do this here? And a year later we made an Orthodox trip.

- Father Alexander, how is the problem with divorce in your city?

In St. Petersburg, for 50 thousand marriages, 20 thousand divorces a year

In St. Petersburg the figures in percentage terms are almost the same as in Moscow. For approximately 50 thousand marriages, there are 20 thousand divorces per year. More on currently I can say that from April 1, 2014 to January 17, 2015, 603 were terminated in St. Petersburg church marriage. That is, on average, two marriages a day break up in a city of five million. There is unofficial evidence that, on average, one or two clergymen experience divorces per year. But Moscow and St. Petersburg are not all of Russia. Life in big cities is very different from life in rural areas. It is known that in the regional region, on average, three out of four marriages break up.

- What is happening in other regions of Russia?

For example, I would take Vladimir region: Vladimir, Suzdal, Murom - ancient cities, the very heart historical Russia. It seemed to me that there were many believers there, that family traditions and the patriarchal way of life could be preserved there. But the number of divorces there has increased markedly over the past year: every two marriages out of three break up. In Yekaterinburg and Sverdlovsk region- the capital of the Urals - more than half of marriages break up.

- These are statistics for Russia. Is there data for the CIS countries?

The chairman of our section was a bishop from Belarus, so I found information on the Republic of Belarus, where every second marriage also breaks up. These numbers are scary when you think about what lies behind each one in these statistics - human tragedy two people, broken families, abandoned children, grief and tears.

What is the reason? Why do the marriages of those who once loved each other, who doted on each other, and who dreamed of living together, break up? I still don’t understand why our family broke up...

The main reasons, as my practice of communicating with people shows, are immature motives for marriage, unfulfilled expectations, differences in upbringing and habits, differences in temperaments and reactions, work, money, poverty, loans; religious difference and difference in goals in life, relationships with parents and relatives, health and physical defects, problems in sexual relationships, bad habits, harmful addictions, the appearance of children, non-acceptance of feelings, inability to build a dialogue, adultery.

- Why withwas adultery the last thing you mentioned?

Among the reasons for the crisis of marriages, I single out “rejection of feelings” and “inability to build a dialogue” as the main ones.

Because most often they are the result of the above-mentioned reasons, the result of the beginning previously crisis of family relations. Among these reasons, I highlight “rejection of feelings” and “inability to build a dialogue,” because acceptance of feelings and correct dialogue are the only one a way to overcome everything that is written above.

I have messed up a lot of things in my life, not understanding why I should engage in feelings or build a dialogue. I thought that I just had to endure, pray, confess, take communion, and that’s enough. Instead of taking care of my family on weekends, I spent half the day in the temple...

Well, you're not alone. Firstly, practice shows that marriages break up even among sincerely religious people. Secondly, God, having created man, endowed him with natural needs, bodily and mental. We know better about bodily needs. This is the need for air, drink, food, warmth, etc. But we know the needs of the soul worse. Eat different classifications needs. For example, one of the most famous is Abraham Maslow's pyramid of needs. But for marital relations we use a simpler classification - just a list, without giving a gradation of what is primary and what is secondary. This is the need for security, the need to love and be loved, the need for acceptance (that is, to be accepted), recognition, respect, approval ( feedback), autonomy (freedom), belonging (for example, to a group of people), achievement, meaning (including a deeper understanding of this need - the need for a relationship with God). Satisfaction of any of these needs gives rise to pleasant feelings, and dissatisfaction gives rise to unpleasant feelings. A person cannot tolerate unpleasant feelings indefinitely. Sooner or later, he will either explode, lose his temper, behave inappropriately, or satisfy the need that caused them in some other way, sometimes sinful - through a surrogate... or simply die.

- So, by not satisfying the needs of our neighbor, by ignoring his feelings, we push him to sin or death?

Who said that it is the husband and wife who should cause suffering to each other?

Yes, in other words, we don’t love him. Sometimes we must sacrifice our desire to satisfy needs for the sake of saving the soul, for the sake of helping our neighbor, for the sake of fighting sin and be ready to go through unpleasant feelings. But the sacrament of marriage was established by God in paradise, and it is not a sin. You can’t do without sorrow anywhere, but who said that it is the husband and wife who should cause suffering to each other? Feelings are born in the soul without our will and reason. They indicate the satisfaction or dissatisfaction of some of our needs. Ways of expressing feelings, as well as thoughts, desires, decisions made, words and actions. Some feelings can provoke sin. But the very fact that a person feels something is not a sin. He cannot be blamed for this.

- You highlighted the problem of dialogue. Why?

Dialogue is an honest and sincere conversation between two people, provided that they both love each other and trust each other, have - remember God - and follow the rules of dialogue. If at least one of them is violated, no dialogue occurs.

- What are these rules?

The rules are simple:

• listen before you speak;
• share, not argue;
• understand, not evaluate;
• First of all, forgive.

A deep understanding of feelings, needs and building the right dialogue should become the norm for spouses.

But this needs to be taught

- And where do they teach this?

After my wife and I took part in the Catholic program for the first time, I wrote a report asking for blessings to organize such activities in our diocese and for the Orthodox. A year was spent getting to know the Grzybowskis, studying their methods, and on September 24, 2010, in St. Petersburg, with the blessing of Metropolitan Vladimir (Kotlyarov), the Orthodox Diocesan Center “Matrimonial Encounters” was created, which implements two main programs - “Family Dialogue” and “Happiness Forever.” The current Metropolitan of St. Petersburg and Ladoga Barsanuphius also blesses and approves of our activities.

- What are the main goals of your work?

- “Matrimonial Encounters” is an international inter-church movement, the goal of which is to help spouses, regardless of nationality and religious affiliation, make their relationships deeper, so that husband and wife get to know and understand each other better, realize and renew their feelings, build each other dialogue with each other, more fully revealed for themselves the meaning of marriage and the sacrament of weddings... This movement now consists of two independent but cooperating organizations - the Orthodox Union and the Catholic Association. Each of the organizations operates strictly within the framework of the canon law of its church, and cooperation is carried out only to the extent that the canons mutually allow us to do so. We have similar programs, although, of course, the content has been adapted for use among Orthodox Christians. “Happiness Forever” is a program for preparing young couples for marriage - one of the forms of catechesis before the wedding. And “Family Dialogue” is a program of work with existing families. It is held over two days in the form of a visiting seminar. This program is useful for any family who wants to develop and deepen their relationships, to better understand each other, and not just for families in crisis. There are two more additional programs- subsequent support for participants in the Family Dialogue program and a special training program for leading couples and priests - that is, those who organize and conduct these events.

- Where else, besides St. Petersburg, are there such centers?

At the moment, there are prospects for opening centers in Yekaterinburg, Barnaul, Almaty, Kokshetau, Minsk and, possibly, Moscow. We are preparing leading couples for future centers in these cities.

- Who finances your project?

For presenters and organizers, “Matrimonial Meetings” are a form of service to God and neighbors. Therefore, the presenters receive nothing from participation except the hope of a reward from God. Participants pay only overhead and organizational costs.

- Do you already have statistics from the day the center opened?

35 couples went through the “Happiness Forever” program over two years; 116 couples took part in the Family Dialogue program over four years, 18 of which were in deep crisis. As a result, five married couples divorced, which is 27% of the number of crisis couples or 4% of total number participants. I would like to emphasize that we do not work for the sake of statistics, otherwise we would deny participation to the most problematic couples. From experience I can say that the result is in the hands of the participants themselves - it depends on their sincerity, trust and diligence.

- Father Alexander, what do you need for further development?

Firstly, we need a special theological study of church teaching on marriage, on human feelings and needs. Unfortunately, patristic literature touches very little on the topic family relations. Secondly, the support of the hierarchy is important. Thank God, our Metropolitan Barsanuphius, who is the manager of the affairs of the Moscow Patriarchate, supports us, but locally there is a misunderstanding among some bishops, priests and laity. We are sometimes accused of taking the Catholic idea as the basis for our activities, instead of coming up with something of our own. But it's good famous proverb, the meaning of which is clear to everyone: “Why reinvent the wheel?” Sometimes we are pushed to lie, saying: “Tell me for the good of the matter, so as not to embarrass anyone, that you came up with everything yourself.” But I believe that this would be wrong in relation to the Grzybowski family, who actually devoted their entire lives to creating these programs. And special thanks to Father Dimitry Smirnov. He was one of the first to understand the importance of what we were doing. Thirdly, we lack priests. We are ready to train priestly couples. Fourthly, we very much hope that practice in the “Matrimonial Encounters” will become an integral part of the preparation of clergy before their ordination. And finally, fifthly, the creation of Orthodox infrastructure is required - Orthodox hotels and centers for the implementation of family educational programs at the level of metropolises or large dioceses. Currently, we are forced to use the services of secular hotels, which causes certain difficulties and leads to an increase in the cost of the program. An example could be Orthodox center"Kinonia" near Minsk. This is an inexpensive Orthodox hotel with a refectory, a study hall and a house church. If anyone wants to get acquainted with our experience, primarily for relationships in their own family, we invite you to take part in a trip under the “Family Dialogue” program in St. Petersburg from April 24 to 26 or from November 13 to 15, 2015. We are also planning a trip to Astana from May 15 to 17.

- Father, tell us a little about yourself. How did you come to faith?

Perhaps the first step is baptism at the age of 17, at the end of school. Although it was an unconscious baptism. We walked past the temple, and my mother simply suggested we stop by. Let's see: there's a queue. Mom is a Soviet person: since there is a queue, you need to get in, and then find out why. Already in the middle of the line, it was discovered that this was a line for baptism. Despite the fact that those standing in the temple also did not know why they were standing.

- What temple was it in?

In the St. Nicholas Naval Cathedral. Mom was baptized. He tells me: “We waited so long! Let’s baptize you, you’re not baptized among us.” That's how I was baptized. This was the first step of serious contact with the Church, although I did not understand anything: what? For what? Why? Rather, it was a kind of tribute to fashion, which appeared at that time because the Soviet regime collapsed. 1990, people started to grab onto something so old. And a serious step towards faith was when I read the Gospel of Mark. It was then published in the magazine “Literary Studies”. In 1992-1993 there were no such problems, but in 1990 there were still problems, there was no Bible in free access. And then the Gospel was published! I decided for myself that I just needed to read for general development. And then you come to the Hermitage, there are paintings hanging, but I have no idea what is painted on them, what kind of subjects they are. When I read it, I realized that this is somehow not like the myths Ancient Greece that clearly behind what I am reading are real stories, real people; in general, there is reason to think that everything is not so simple. Many of the truths that the Gospel speaks of coincided with my thoughts. I thought about these topics, but did not find any internal reason why it was this way and not that way. That was probably the first time I started to really try to pray.

- What did you finish?

I am a geophysicist by training. First he graduated from the Mining Institute, then from the seminary in St. Petersburg. Now I am studying in Moscow at the graduate school of Saints Cyril and Methodius. I want to write a work on the theology of marriage, but due to the abundance of tasks and obediences, I have no time at all.

- Are you and your mother both from St. Petersburg? How did you meet?

Yes, from St. Petersburg. We met in our church. Lyuba was delivering a package for the pilgrim group, and we met on the stairs. Somehow it seemed like we knew each other. On this basis a conversation began.

- Who is the wife’s specialty? Please tell us about your family.

Lyuba is a lawyer, works in a secular job - always on a free schedule, and not eight hours a day. Her mother always helped and helped out with the children. We have been married for 17 years. We have three children. Anya is 15 years old, Sasha is 11, and Ksyusha is 7. Children were born every four years. If God willing, we will give birth again. But now there is a pause.

- How do you feel about family planning?

We have our own position, which is expressed in “Matrimonial Meetings”. When young people come to us for nine lessons in the “Happiness Forever” program, one lesson is devoted to health. We say that we should strive not to avoid pregnancy, but to give birth to healthy children. Knowing physiology and the fact that a woman can become pregnant within just five days, a maximum of a week, once a month, we see nothing wrong with the fact that a person, with his mind and will, lives according to these natural cycles and knows whether he wants a child or now he is not ready, but without any outside interference. But if the Lord gives a child, then, of course, you need to accept it.

- How did you find those who needed help?

There are more than enough of them. People somehow learn from their acquaintances, and from those who wish to do so, more than we can accommodate. For now we are not going to an advertising company at all. We want to build a “Good Home”. This is a project that would be suitable not only for the “Marriage Meetings” that we hold only a few times a year, but also for many other family programs. The basis is a hotel, a house church, a refectory and a hall where you can hold a conference, lecture, and meetings about past meetings.

-Have you submitted your project to the Orthodox Initiative?

Not yet. The Orthodox Initiative does not allocate funds for such construction, and much more funds are required than they receive from this grant. We need an investor who will understand how important and good this matter is. That is, it should be something on the verge of charity. At the same time, this can also bring a stable income, which will recoup the investment over time. Catholics have such a base near St. Petersburg, although in St. Petersburg Catholics are in a total minority; we even have more Lutherans than Catholics, because many ethnic Finns live in the vicinity of St. Petersburg. Nevertheless, the Catholics built a small house with a hotel, which not only they, but also the Orthodox Christians rent. There you can Kid `s camp arrange, you can hold a meeting like an off-site seminar, “Marital meetings” and so on. We even used this house for some time, converting the Catholic chapel that they have inside into Orthodox church, but still the Catholic surroundings confused the participants a little.

Being a secular hotel has its downsides. Firstly, it is difficult to pray at the Liturgy when there are paintings by secular artists on the walls; secondly, we had situations a couple of times when at the end of the program we were asked: “Please, vacate such and such a number early.” Everything started to crumble...

Was it really necessary to visit Catholics to understand how important it is to learn to talk through your problems and conduct a dialogue?

It doesn’t matter who you visit, but it was important that someone teach you. It turned out that they taught, and we took this methodology in order to teach the Orthodox. Believe me, we do not touch on the topic of the Pope, dogmatics, or anything else that distinguishes Catholics from Orthodox Christians. His Holiness the Patriarch said back in 2012: “Today the theme of family is one of the central themes in the relations of the Church with the outside world. If we talk about it in the context of bilateral relations between Orthodox Church And Catholic Church“, family is a topic where we can actively interact together today, because we are like-minded on almost all issues.” That is, we are directly implementing what the Patriarch said. Both Orthodox and Catholics in their families fight and make peace in the same way, they have the same problems with dialogue, and they have to teach people how to build a dialogue in the same way. People do not understand the principles of dialogue, people do not even understand the basics of family life. The connection between generations has been destroyed, and own families are often not role models. But people don’t know how to build normal relationships. They begin to copy the mistakes of their parents, and mistakes are superimposed on mistakes. I can say that dialogue is not only a family problem. An example before our eyes: Russia, Donbass and Ukraine. What to do? There is only one way to solve it - dialogue. War can provide arguments to one side or the other. But the goal of any war is not to take the enemy’s capital, but to make peace on the most favorable terms for the winner. So we still need to enter into negotiations, there’s no escape. You'll have to make peace sooner or later.

Father, I want to ask about second marriages. Believing Christians have made many mistakes in their lives, their first marriage breaks up for some reason, and they want to enter into a second marriage without being married. How should they be?

If you are getting married or getting married for the second time, then get ready for a flurry of problems.

I would recommend signing up, then going to our Family Dialogue program, for example, because it very deeply raises internal relationships, and then choose. This topic is very pressing - second marriages. I always intuitively warn that if you are getting married or getting married for the second time, then get ready for a barrage of problems that you did not expect at all. I'll explain why.

We understand that the Lord establishes one, and second marriage is a choice not between good and evil, but between greater evil and lesser evil. It happens like this: there is a path, and there is a fork - good and evil. What to choose? Evil can be very seductive. And people stand at a fork in the road. But sooner or later you will still have to choose and move on. It is good and right if a person chooses good. For example: change/not change - chose not to change, broke off relations with some temptation and saved the family. Well done! But suppose a person chose a different path: he cheated, sinned, followed the path of evil - this is bad, this is the path leading to hell. But the Lord does not abandon man. Sometimes you can’t fix anything here, you won’t return to goodness here, because the path has been passed, the fork has been passed. And then the Lord gives a chance called “another fork in the road.” It can be called this: “greater evil/lesser evil.” This is no longer an ideal, but at least it is a path that can lead you out of hell.

Another cause of conflict in the family can be an incorrect attitude towards children - when they make an idol out of a child - they put their child, and not God, at the center of the family, and this determines the wrong relationship between the wife and husband and the two of them with their child.

The husband's attitude towards Christ is very important. If the husband follows Christ, then the wife follows her husband. If the husband does not follow Christ, the wife has no one to follow and, willy-nilly, has to become the head of the family - but for her this is unnatural. This also leads to many problems.

In fact best word St. John Chrysostom wrote about marriage, interpreting the 7th chapter of the 1st Epistle of the Apostle Paul to the Corinthians.