Theater of intimate relationships: the last premieres of the season and an attraction for the whole summer. Theater of intimate relationships: the last premieres of the season and an attraction for the whole summer A game of you in color

Fedor Elyutin, the producer responsible for last year’s main summer hit, an adaptation of the project of the Berlin group Rimini Protokoll, this time makes the Russian version of the “interactive experience for one viewer” of the Belgian company Ontroerend Goed. I am telling you, if possible, without spoilers, about my own experience of “Your Game” - the one and only experience: what the performance you go to turns out to be depends only on you.

When you come to Tsvetnoy (an unusual modern theater inhabits unusual venues; the game pavilion for this project is located on the fourth floor of a department store) - you find yourself in the red room. The interior has a long trail of associations, from Strindberg's red room to Lynch's black wigwam, but all suggest immersion - to one degree or another - in oneself. “Your Game” also offers a journey into your inner world, in which the actors first play with you, and then play you. You spend some time alone with the mirror, guessing that you have seen similar mirrors, permeable on one side, more than once - in the movies, when the hero finds himself in an interrogation room. A few minutes later, you make acquaintance with another guest of the mirror room - in my case, it turned out to be a girl who introduced herself as Alex and was worried about a new haircut and ten extra pounds (I guarantee that in each specific case this character will be different, why this is so - you will understand for yourself , in the final). Then you set out on a journey through the red labyrinth, entering into confidential - as much as you allow - dialogues with a guide who will try to find out as much personal information as possible from you in order to turn it into a short but effective performance. I shy away from describing the details, because I promised that I would try without spoilers. I’ll just say that it was in vain that on the eve of the “Game” I glanced at the press release, where there was something about the fact that you can be watched when you pick your nose: in fact, you should have picked your nose, it would have been more fun.

Compared to the big walk Remote Moscow, this project is more modest and calmer, which is why there is a moment of slight disappointment - this is partly compensated by the cherries that greet you at the entrance and exit. Maybe the fact is that I am such a person, satiated with a variety of theater, including experimental theater, on the one hand, and, on the other, prone to self-examination without outside help. But another, a business person, who usually has no time for theater and no time for reflection, will stop here, look around, look at himself from the side and be amazed. The target audience of “Your Game” is, of course, not journalists who watch more than 200 performances a year, but a conditional “ordinary viewer” who is not accustomed to the fact that theater is not necessarily a sleepy sitting in a chair, it is also direct participation , mutual energy return, psychological attraction. In this case, it’s almost like a quest, where the viewer is the main component, the object and the subject at the same time.

"Kira Georgievna"

Performance “Kira Georgievna”

Performance “Kira Georgievna”

Photo courtesy of the theater press service

Performance “Kira Georgievna”

Photo courtesy of the theater press service

The new performance by Sergei Zhenovach is based on the story of Viktor Nekrasov, a unique author: winner of the Stalin Prize for the book “In the Trenches of Stalingrad” (the program notes almost provocatively about this award), later a dissident and emigrant. The program is silent about the fact that in 1974 Nekrasov left for Switzerland, never to return to the USSR, but the style of production - subtle and gentle melodrama, a “sad little story” (to use the name of another famous text by Nekrasov) - refers rather, to the European psychological cinema of the 1960s, rather than to the Soviet, even bravura, even unceremoniously lyrical art of that time. The story of an impetuous woman sculptor (in the title role is the magnificent Maria Shashlova), torn between three beloved men (the elderly husband-artist is played by Sergei Kachanov, the ex-husband returning to life after a term in Stalin’s camps is played by Dmitry Lipinsky, the new lover, the young model - Andrey Nazimov), is played out in an interior full of authentic details: even authentic magazines from the turn of the 1950s-60s are included in the set design by Alexander Borovsky. It’s easy to see them, because “Kira Georgievna” is performed on the small stage of the Theater Arts Studio, in a space not designed for even a hundred spectators, and before “Kira” only one performance was staged here, the poignant “River Potudan”. While the audience is gathering, cheerful Soviet songs are heard from an authentic radio - but once the action begins, the music will stop: nothing should distract from frank conversations (this is also how the genre of the play is designated). Classic in form, even salon theater turns out to be a theater of maximum approximation, making the border with our private life almost transparent - without direct interference in this very life.

"Psychosis"

Performance "Psychosis"

Performance "Psychosis"

Performance "Psychosis"

Alexander Zeldovich is primarily a film director (although his biography includes the project “Othello”, which was performed a couple of times at the Meyerhold Center a good decade ago), the author of the deliberately, to the point of decay, glamorous and sophisticated opuses “Moscow” and “Target” scripts co-written with Vladimir Sorokin. For an ambitious production at the Electrotheater, he took the play by English playwright Sarah Kane “4.48 Psychosis” - a painful, passionate, exhausting female monologue of a suicide, one of the most shocking texts in world drama: 4.48 - the time when the heroine commits suicide, 4.48 - the time when 28-year-old Sarah Kane herself hanged herself in a psychiatric clinic, putting an end to both the play and her life. Zeldovich turned a work that usually takes a little over an hour into a large-scale, two-hour-and-a-half-hour (including intermission) performance: the text is divided between 19 actresses, and the physiological video art of the AES+F group, epic and simple at the same time, reminiscent of about the early works of the team, made without the participation of actors and models. It’s a strange thing: “Psychosis” is full of blood, meat, obscenities (it’s worth noting the wit of the translator, trying to maintain the rules of decency and replacing fuck you with “die, bitch”), radically intimate things, the drive of an ensemble of first-class actresses of different ages, but remains a luxurious and cold installation . And Zeldovich is not the only one who treats a scary (maybe too scary) text this way. A few years ago, NET brought “4.48 Psychosis” by the Pole Grzegorz Jarzyny - it also clothed the frantic Kane in a strict form, shackling the dying storm with a frame of electronic green numbers. Maybe someday someone will decide to stage this play the way it was written - cruel and dirty?

Lecture for beginners from the "Society" section with difficulty of perception: 1

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00:00:00 I am very glad to see you here in this room again. We will continue today the topic started yesterday. Yesterday I tried to talk about the laws of love that operate in relationships between people. And, of course, the main point of yesterday's seminar is that a person needs love. People now think that a person needs money, and a person needs it. I think everyone will agree with this. The Goddess of Prosperity or Goddess of Wealth in Sanskrit is. In Vedic culture it is said that there is more than one Lakshmi. Now in modern culture, Lakshmi is money, the zeros in our bank account, the bills in our wallet. But it is said that there are 8 aspects of Lakshmi or 8 different forms of prosperity, wealth. There is Vijaya-Lakshmi or Lakshmi of the wealth of victory, the wealth of courage. There is Jnana-Lakshmi. Lakshmi, who is the wealth or abundance of knowledge. A person who has knowledge is also very rich in his own way. There is [Bairami] Lakshmi - a very renounced person, internally detached, also a rich person, he has this wealth. And ultimately the highest manifestation of Lakshmi or wealth. There is Dana Lakshmi or the Goddess of enlightenment, wealth, money. Yes, and so on. I don't remember all these aspects now. By the way, they are connected with our horoscope and with our astrology.

Wealth of Love

00:02:47 But there is the most important form of human wealth - Prema Lakshmi or the wealth of love. When a person is rich in love or the ability to love, the ability to feel other people, then all other forms of wealth come to him naturally. Yesterday we talked about exactly this. About what it means to have the wealth of love inside. I said yesterday that in the beginning a person must master himself, conquer himself or even not to defeat himself - to find himself, to understand where the center is, the real real center of his being, and not a false illusory center, but a real center. And then only he will be able to truly enter into very productive and very healthy relationships with other people. Okay, we'll continue where we left off yesterday.

00:04:08 I talked yesterday about this metaphor, about the emotional bank account of trust, what deposits a person can make. And he began the most important topic - the need to learn to enter into relationships based on common victory. Not into a relationship based on the fact that “my victory is your defeat” or “my defeat is your victory,” but into a relationship, the foundation of which will be the idea that in a relationship we should both win, we should both get something. some happiness, some good, some benefit. And what this means, I will tell you in detail today and will also talk about the fifth skill, the next skill, skill sympathy, which is naturally very closely related to this.

Six types of relationships

00:05:16 So, I said that in principle there are, well, let’s say, relatively speaking, six relationships or agreements, six forms of relationships that I can enter into with other people: “my victory is your victory,” “my victory - your defeat”, “my defeat is your victory”, “my defeat is your defeat”, simply “my victory”. Finally, a special case of the first “my victory is your victory” and we enter into a relationship. I have briefly described four types of these relationships. By the way, this is an illustration that I didn’t show yesterday. I'm talking about a conditional period. Here. This is a man with love tattooed on his fist. We end with this inspiring picture that illustrates the latest form of relationship. Let it be worse for me, but it will also be worse for you, but I will harm myself just to harm another - vindictiveness.

00:06:53 To sum it up, I wanted to say that... Yes, the last one - “my victory” - is when I think only about my own interests, I don’t think about anything else, in principle I don’t care what will be with others. It is absolutely obvious that this is not a full-fledged relationship. So. I explained that the mindset to enter into a certain form of relationship is very deeply rooted in our consciousness. We are already programmed for a certain form of relationships and therefore, despite the fact that in real life it is possible and necessary to use the entire arsenal of these relationships, we, as a rule, use one of these forms and this is a mistake. My description may give the false impression that I am trying to suggest to you that all relationships should be based on this principle of “my victory is your victory”, this is not the case. This is an absolutely unrealistic assumption, because in some situations, due to the fact that we have to deal with different people, this form of relationship is unrealistic.

00:08:20 In some cases, we must choose the relationship formula that we seem to have condemned with you - “my victory is your defeat.” In essence, the correctness of this attitude depends on the situation. For example, the ancient Indian epic contains many stories, the meaning of which is that you need to enter into a “my victory is your defeat” relationship with deceivers. If a person is determined to deceive, if a person initially wants to achieve victory at any cost, then you need to deal with him using his own methods. This is actually paradoxical, one of the paradoxical provisions of Vedic philosophy. We are often programmed, again, with a slightly idealized idea of ​​spiritual philosophy, that spiritual philosophy preaches only some kind of holiness.

Genuine humility - a clear position

00:09:28 In the Mahabharata, Krishna says: “Deceivers must be deceived. It will be right". If a person is a deceiver himself, then he must be dealt with accordingly. Why? Because if we allow ourselves to be deceived, if we allow ourselves to be exploited, then this is essentially no better than if we ourselves try to exploit other innocent people. A very important essential point is that a person should strive to enter into the right relationships, i.e. “my victory is your victory,” but in some situations I will have to choose other options. The main thing is that I should not constantly pretend to be a victim, a kind of good person who is offended by everyone and who is taken advantage of by everyone. This is also wrong, this is just the other side of pride. Real authentic humility means that at some point I take a very clear and strong position.

00:10:41 As I already said, in real life, different relationships in different situations are fruitful, productive. For example, if I need to maintain a relationship with you, and the subject is not very important, the subject of our [not clear] agreement. I can go for the “your victory is my defeat” option, I can give in to you. Why? Because I value your relationship and, in principle, I will not spend too much effort trying to achieve some other option. Okay, I'll give in, there's no problem. And when we feel that the game is not worth the candle, that something could be achieved, but in principle, the Lord is with him, it’s okay. Well, go for this “my defeat is your victory” option. No problem. In other words, once again in real life or, for example, if we are talking about the life of a dear person who is in some difficult situation, I need to help him at any cost in one way or another. I don’t really care how others feel about it. My algorithm of actions will be: “my victory” and that’s it, everything else doesn’t bother me. He wins there - he doesn’t win, I will save him.

00:12:10 In other words, once again different situations require different modes of behavior, but, having said this, I want to make a reservation that for the most part we are dealing with people on whom we depend. For the most part, the situations we are in or the relationships we enter into are based on interdependence, be it business relationships or family relationships or relationships with our friends. As I already said, in a situation of interdependence, only the “my victory is your victory” algorithm truly works, the mindset for this, no matter how difficult it may be. I will now explain that, in general, consistently implementing this philosophy or this attitude is not easy precisely because for the most part we are programmed or other people are programmed - “I win - you lose” or “I lose - you win.”

00:13:25 This is very easy to understand. If we are in a relationship of interdependence, for example, a client, a seller, or some kind of partners, and we can play this game “my victory is your defeat” with him once. How will this all end? Because the client will not come to us a second time. We simply deceived him, we deceived him, and he will feel it, he will understand that I was taken advantage of and we will lose him. This is an elementary example of how when we are dependent on each other, we need to insist that the only acceptable form of civilized relationship is I take care of you and you take care of me. I care about getting my benefit, but so that it is beneficial to you or it is good for you. And naturally, in the family, in the family, sometimes it also happens that people fall into some kind of relationship of rivalry: wife with husband or husband with wife. But can this situation last long, when one always turns out to be guilty, and the other wins? Maybe if they found each other. If a strong wife found a good, weak husband.

00:14:56 But the trouble is that in the end both will still be unhappy. What if we, even if we assume that one person is programmed for my defeat and another person is always inferior to him, programmed to win all the time, find each other, it would seem an ideal combination, right? One likes to give in, the other likes to insist on his own, because a person, even if he likes to give in, sooner or later he will get tired of it. Sooner or later he will howl and say: “Well, how much can you?” He will still accumulate negative emotions, anger will accumulate. And, as I already said, this situation will degenerate into a “my defeat is your defeat” situation. I will do it, let me give in, but I will also do bad things to you. Therefore, it is very important to understand what this means, how to negotiate this way, and what it means. And this is work. Labor, because we need to break ourselves or because maybe the other person is not programmed for this, one way or another.

00:17:31 In this case, I remember very well and clearly remember this feeling of relief when I said: “Please forgive me, but I don’t want to. In principle, I don’t want to enter into such a relationship.” No matter how he imposed or tried to impose, I just stepped aside and said: “No. Either let’s communicate differently. If you want to communicate, I’m ready, but we’ll communicate differently, or let’s just Let's go our separate ways." This alternative gives a feeling of very great freedom, i.e. a person, if he respects himself and understands very well that I do not want to enter into a humiliating relationship that will ultimately end either in my defeat or in the defeat of another person with whom we are connected to each other, then the other option or solution is to simply separate .

00:18:30 This is actually practice, technique. Or rather, not the technology, but, well, let’s just say what it really means, because everyone wants it, everyone understands it. Everything I have said is meant to convince you. We need to set ourselves up in this way and try to explain to our partner that our relationship should be based on exactly this foundation - not on another. Now I will try to tell you what this really means. Covey says that in essence, to realize this attitude, one must ensure that this attitude is realized in the five dimensions of life. In other words, in order to actually enter into this relationship (it’s not all as complicated as it might seem at first glance, these are all very practical things), but nevertheless you need to have a good idea of ​​the dimension of these relationships.

00:19:39 Relationships, be it organizational relationships in our team, in our structure in which we work, or in our family, they have five dimensions. In all these five dimensions, certain conditions must be met in order for us to truly realize this principle of “my victory is your victory.” The first is character, of these five things. The first is definitely character. And in order for a person to be able, in principle, be it myself or another person with whom I enter into a relationship, for a person to enter into such a relationship, he must have three certain fundamental character traits. I will not be able to realize this relationship or this “my victory is your victory” paradigm if I do not have these three properties.

00:20:50 These three properties. We already know the first one. First, well, now I’ll tell you about it a little differently, what it means - integrity of character. I spoke yesterday, spoke yesterday about this aspect of our character or our mentality. I said that the value of character means, as it were, initial honesty and goodwill, a benevolent attitude. I will try to explain a little differently why now (this is very important, very important), why a person sometimes has no goal, i.e. split character, two-faced. In fact, in reality a person is not only two-faced, he is three-faced, four-faced, five-faced or many-faced. The Greeks even had a God like this - a two-faced Janus. This duality or splitting of a person. And very often people become so confused that they essentially don’t know who they are. They play many different roles and, in fact, all this is or is not wholeness - the fragmentation, fragmentation of our character, our ego, is caused by the fact that a person has many desires that tear him in different directions.

00:22:37 And he tries to realize these desires by playing different roles in his life. And even if he does not realize these desires, in any case we have to play different roles, many different roles in this life. I play the role of a mother. I'm sorry, I'm not playing the role of a mother. [Laughs]. But I can play a role, someone can play the role of a mother, the role of a father, a husband, the role of a wife, the role of a manager, a leader, the role of a subordinate. Many, many, many, many different roles that we ultimately play in order to realize some of our desires. Every role we take on is needed in order to fulfill some need, our desires, or something else. And in essence, when a person does not have a constant center, he becomes entangled in the roles that he plays. He does not know what role he needs to play now, what role he needs to play at another moment, and these roles come into conflict with each other.

00:23:57 The word persona translated from Latin, if I'm not mistaken, or Greek means mask. And a person, if he has not put his Self together and has not understood where the center of his being is, he can continue to play many roles if he has this center. The difference is one thing, the difference is that when I have so many roles, I have no unchanging center, then I become two-faced, and I will not be able to enter into correct relationships with people. In relationships, I will let different people down all the time, I will always..., i.e. I won’t have this support on which I rely. And in essence, what is the amazing feature of this book is that it first teaches a person how to put it together, how to put himself together, without being based on, let’s say, overtly spiritual principles. In fact, this is a natural concession in modern culture, which is very afraid of any overt religious or spiritual actions. But in essence, what Stephen Covey wants to tell us in this book is that there is a soul. The soul must play roles in different situations of its life, and I must find my soul and understand who I really am, and then only I can play all the other roles correctly and the integrity of my character is based on this. I will not be able to gain a complete character if I do not understand that I am a soul, because... and that everything else is my will. Because today I am alone, tomorrow I am different. Today I am a teenager, tomorrow I am an old man. These are different roles.

00:25:59 If I did not understand that there is something unchanged that always remains in these life situations, then I will not be able to enter into relationships with other people correctly. In other words, once again, in order to gain integrity of character, a person must understand a simple thing: I am a spirit, a soul, I am something that does not change in all situations and in all roles, and proceed from this, build my relationships from this. And such an integral person, he is very reliable, predictable, so he inspires trust. Now the next very important thing is... We are talking now about three character qualities that will really help us or provide the foundation for right relationships with other people.

00:26:54 The second thing Stephen Covey talks about is maturity. I must have a solid character, but this is not enough. I may have an integral character, but if I do not have maturity (I will now explain what maturity means), then I still will not be able to properly build my relationships with other people. Maturity means a certain balance between hardness and flexibility. Courage, i.e. self-confidence and sensitivity, i.e. desire to understand another person. This is the maturity of a person. The maturity of a person is that he can maintain this balance, not lose himself to please another and not destroy another in order to insist on his own. In fact, this is a highly important quality that also develops, it can be developed, because if I, so to speak, only think about others, then in the end I will not achieve my goals, I will get lost. If I only think about my goals and don't think about others, I will ruin my relationships and end up not achieving my goals either.

00:28:31 This is a supremely important quality, this inner balance between courage and sensitivity or self-confidence and respect for others. I must be confident in myself and at the same time respect others or care about others and at the same time care about achieving my goal. When a person has one quality weakened (here we took the usual two-dimensional coordinate system. On one we put courage or self-respect, and on the other - sensitivity or respect for others. Or as you said? Self-confidence. Self-confidence and respect for others ), then we essentially get on this axis, in this coordinate system, a matrix that we have already described. When a person can enter into right relationships with each other, into right relationships with people: “my victory is your victory,” only when he has high self-confidence, very high self-confidence and high respect for others.

00:30:04 When he has high self-confidence, high and low respect for others, what kind of relationships will he enter into? Yes, "my victory is your defeat." When he has low self-confidence and high respect for others, what kind of relationships will he enter into? Yes, "my defeat is your victory." When he has low self-respect and low respect for people, what kind of relationships will he enter into? Yes, he will exhibit this lower nature of vindictiveness, precisely because he is not mature. Vengeful people are, as a rule, infantile people, immature people who do not understand, who have not reached any heights. That is, in other words, this balance is very important and this balance must be at a high level. A person must respect himself, be confident in himself, develop self-confidence. If I have low self-confidence, I will not be able to enter into the right relationships, I will prefer to be a victim. If I have low respect for other people, I will naturally also not be able to enter into the right relationships, I will prefer to be a winner. I need to develop both. This is the first important condition. Again, it develops in, let's say, the first part of the book, which we have already gone through.

00:31:40 And finally the third quality of character. We are talking about three qualities of character necessary to enter into right relationships with each other. The third character quality is also very important - an abundance mentality. This is an idea (and you will probably now understand what we are talking about). There are people who always feel like they are missing something. People who are not enough for me to be afraid of are, in general, greedy people. And vice versa, there are people who are calm, they know that there is enough for everyone. Have you met these two categories of people, right? Have you met people who are very calm and they know that in this world there is enough for everything. There is another opposite category of people. In fact, again these two categories of people are spoken of in the Upanishads. Thousands of years ago in the primordial Vedas it was described that there are brahmanas and kripanas. Brahmana means a generous person, a magnanimous person, a person who is not afraid that if someone has received something, it does not mean that he has snatched it from him. There are people who, when they see someone enjoying something, they think: “This is mine,” that I should enjoy it - these are kripans, this is a miser. This is again a very deep internal attitude.

00:33:31 There are people who know that there is enough for everyone in this world, there are people who think that there is not enough, they have this inferiority complex, and they always try to put something off for themselves. This abundance mentality comes from this self-confidence and self-esteem. Ultimately, a person will be able to enter into these relationships correctly if he has developed this way of thinking. And again, this way of thinking that there is enough for everyone in this world is a spiritual branch of thought. If I understand that the world is infinite, that the world is inexhaustible, that there is always enough in the world. As people who are obsessed with this mentality of not enough, they now think that too many people have multiplied, that there are six billion or seven billion or I don’t know how many billions of people already. [Answer from the audience: seven]. Seven. God bless. The bigger, the better. What needs to be destroyed, we need war, there must be one golden billion. They will leave one golden billion and fight each other. They, too, will not have enough of everything.

00:34:51 If you've ever flown on an airplane, the earth is empty. There is enough for everyone in this world. The world is designed in such a way that it is complete in itself, just as long as it is needed, everything will be. Scarcity occurs in this world only because greedy people live here. These greedy people encroach on what does not truly belong to them, so there is a shortage. Scarcity is in their mind. The scarcity that reigns in our minds, unfortunately, leads to the fact that someone really lacks something because someone has acquired more. The spiritual mentality is based on the fact that everyone has their share allocated to us, and everything we need will come to us. The beauty of this world is that even if we want to take more, we cannot take more than we are entitled to. In the end, if we take more than what we are entitled to, we are simply exhausting some loan from the future. We must be content with what comes naturally and try to enter into these joyful, happy, loving relationships that are based on abundance. We don't need to compete, we don't need to compete. There is enough for everyone here. Believe it or not. But if you don't believe it, it's worse for you.

00:36:38 So, this is the first thing. We are talking about five things that need to be approved in order for this installation to be implemented. Unfortunately, once again this is a beautiful theory: “My victory is your victory” mutually beneficial relationship. Relationships that lead to growth, to enrichment for all, that make us joyful, happy partners, people who enter into co-creative relationships. It is difficult to implement. The first is because people do not have these character qualities. I don’t have it, or the other person doesn’t, and therefore the second area is actually the relationship itself, which we will talk about. What is meant?. What if there is no trust between you and me, there is no initially trusting relationship, but at the same time I want to enter into a “my victory is your victory” relationship. Will it be possible to do this or not? Very difficult. I don't trust you - you don't trust me. At the same time, I have this idealistic idea: let's enter into mutually beneficial relationships. Yes, no, nothing will work out. To put this into practice. If I want to enter into such a relationship, I must first take care of what? About growing trust.

00:38:24 I first have to, if I want to enter into such a relationship with someone, I first have to work hard so that trust arises between us. First. And even this is not enough, if I am in the mood of let’s, let’s win together, let’s enter into this good relationship, let’s enter into a relationship where we will both be happy, but the other person is not in the mood for this, then it will also be difficult. In other words, I will need to put in a lot of, let’s say, a lot of work in order to reverse the tendency or the initially unfavorable position of another person. To gain trust, to earn his trust and to work to make him also understand that he doesn’t need to be afraid or try to beat me, that we are basically collaborators, that we are together, that we need to cooperate. The actual meaning of this provision is that if I want to join, I don’t need to be an idealist, I also need to soberly evaluate the other person. Assess his condition, his mentality and think about how I can influence this person, how much he is ready to enter into this relationship.

00:39:58 Unfortunately, this is not always feasible due to the fact that, again, there are no mature people or, if I want to enter into a relationship with a person programmed for something else, I need to break him. Not to break it, but let’s say, transform it, try to transform it. In other words, this is work, this is not a simple thing. You have to tune in to the fact that... well, it's worth it. Because in a family or in some kind of team there will be meaning only when the relationships are built correctly.

00:40:43 And now a simpler thing, which in fact people also very often make mistakes and slip. When we enter into relationships with each other, it is always a relationship of some kind of agreement. We agree with each other. And this applies to everyone: husband and wife are permanent contracts, you constantly need to negotiate and renegotiate. So they eventually agree to go their separate ways. This, unfortunately, also happens. So here's the agreement. If we want this principle to be realized: “my victory is your victory,” we must be built in a special way. We often don’t know how to build these relationships, how to enter into them, or how to enter into these contractual relationships among ourselves, and that’s why it doesn’t work out, it doesn’t work out. We wanted the best, but it turned out as always. We wanted the best. Why? Because they didn't know what it meant.

00:42:08 One fundamental point that I would like to say right away is that when we enter into mutually beneficial relationships with each other, we do not need to talk about methods for achieving this, in no case do we need to talk about methods for achieving this, we need to talk about the result. I will now try to explain what this means. Focus on results, not methods. We speak, we enter into some kind of relationship with a person, for example, a simple example - the child is yours and you need something from the child. Naturally, the easiest way is to tell him: “Do as I told you” and that’s it. Right? But if the child is an adult, then this trick does not work with him or, if it does, then this will be a very serious weakening of trust. All relationships built on the principle of “my victory is your defeat” are relationships of authoritarian power that lead to very low trust. This is low trust; it forces the person who is above him to care about what methods the person acts or comes to the desired result of the person below him. Authoritarian power always means: I have to tell you - you do as I want it to be like this, but the main thing is that you do as I want. I need to build you.

00:44:05 When a person concentrates on a method, when a person monitors (this is called micromanagement or an authoritarian management style) and he can be everywhere - in the family, anywhere. When a person watches how another person acts, the other person under his control feels turned off. His creative potential is completely destroyed because he does not feel any freedom and in such a situation it is in principle impossible, even if I was initially inclined - “my victory is your victory” - to act according to the “my victory is your defeat” template. I just want you to do as I want. Whereas this “my victory is your victory” relationship means that the other person’s mind turns on. I respect him as a person, I respect him as an individual, I approach him. I say: “I respect you very much, we need to achieve this result. Do what you think is necessary in order to achieve this result.” Such an agreement or such an approach to agreement, it includes the human mind, i.e. reveals his creative potential, reveals his individuality, makes him feel like an independent person.

00:45:36 This is especially important in relationships with subordinates, let’s say with conditional subordinates, with children, with ours, with someone else. We can completely deprive them of power, completely lose their trust, if we focus not on results, but on methods. A very important principle or a very common mistake that people make when they enter into any kind of agreement or enter into any kind of agreement with each other. I have already said that in general there is an agreement everywhere. Parents and children agree, husband and wife agree. If there is no “your victory is my victory” relationship, then the person, once again, feels very de-energized in the relationship, because he feels that his creative potential is not used, it becomes a function. This is actually an exploitative situation.

00:46:50 We can see these problematic groups, entire organizations, families, where the principle of exploitation dominates, and where people do not understand. And sometimes it’s surprising, I, so to speak, it just so happened, my fate turned out in such a way that I lead a religious organization. A religious organization, by its very essence, must ensure that the people who come there grow, that they are free, that they have some kind of real spiritual experience. I see again and again how... and the goals seem to be good. Everyone who comes to us - let us take care of you. The result, unfortunately - we wanted the best - it turned out as always. Why? Because people don't understand what it means to enter into these relationships. They don’t understand how to give other people who came there and occupy, let’s say, a lower position in relation to you, this internal freedom.

00:48:05 In a real spiritual organization or in a material organization built on spiritual principles, and once again this book, it says that ultimately only spiritual principles truly work, spiritual laws in this world. So here it is. In an organization built on spiritual principles, even the one who is higher considers himself the servant of the one who is lower. Those who help him grow help him find himself, and this is the fundamental difference. There is a situation of exploitation when I believe that I am superior to another. There is a situation of “my victory is your victory” or spiritual stimulation, when I play the role of the one who is higher. And my role is to help those below me to become even higher, to grow in the end. This is a very important point. I have seen how in our organization, unfortunately, when people with the wrong scarcity mentality enter into relationships, they begin to exploit other people, begin, under the guise of spirituality, begin or continue to sophisticated exploitation of other people. This is perhaps the saddest thing that can happen. Unfortunately, this is reality.

00:49:48 A few more things regarding the agreement. This is perhaps the most important thing: focusing on the result, not on the methods, i.e. the desire to stimulate a creative stimulus in a person, to reveal his potential, to say: “Act as you want, create as you want, the main thing is that there is a result” and trust him, give him the credit of trust. We also need very clear and precise rules for the agreement to be correct, and we play by these rules. Because if the rules are not formulated, there is a very high probability that the relationship will be destroyed. It is very important to agree from the very beginning what rules we follow, because otherwise a person will break some of these rules and offend us, and so on, and everything will be destroyed. Presence is natural. Reporting is a very important thing. Reporting - this does not mean stupid... Immediately, some image of a “bureaucratic organization” arises. Reporting refers to a very powerful tool, which, unfortunately, people often do not use, a feeling of order in relation to another person.

00:51:08 A person needs to feel that he is needed. A person has a need. If we don’t ask him, we entered into some kind of relationship, we agreed on something, and then we don’t ask him, the person thinks: “Is what I’m doing necessary or not?” The need to do something necessary, it is very easily released if we are asked. Sometimes we are afraid to ask another person. We agreed. So why don't you do it, why don't you do it? Because we feel that we are not finishing something. But actually it's very important to take it and ask: "How? Are you doing this?" The person will feel: yes, it turns out that I need to do this. This is an important tool. Well, naturally there are consequences too, but I won’t talk about them now, I don’t want to go into some, let’s say, technical details. It is primarily written for people involved in professional management. I basically rework it or present the material in relation to our life, to our everyday life.

00:52:24 But, again, agreements take place in our everyday life and we need to enter into these agreements or these contractual relations correctly. To do this, you need to give resources, clearly stipulate the rules of the game, it doesn’t matter if we are talking about children, about a wife, or about someone else, about a husband. To do this, you need to care about the result and not pedantically follow some methods and procedures, developing creative potential. To do this, you must definitely ask the person. How will we ask? Another very important point. If we want to enter into this right relationship, the “my victory is your victory” relationship, a person must be given the opportunity to evaluate himself. The best thing that will happen is if we tell a person: “Tell me yourself, how did you achieve what you need or not?” We are used to being evaluated all the time, and when we are evaluated, what kind of relationship is this? "My victory is your defeat." Absolutely right. When we are evaluated, when someone from above evaluates us, and all the time says: “You are like this. You are like this.”, gives us grades. If we want to really enter into this creative relationship with another person, we need to agree that we evaluate ourselves, including this self-esteem, it will be a very big incentive. This is also a kind of credit of trust for a person.

00:54:18 And actually these are three main things: agreement, character and attitude. In order to be able to really act, you need to sort of think through all this. There are a few more things, two things: the system and the processes. I will tell them very briefly. Sometimes we declare this principle: I am for a common victory, I am for everyone to develop, for everyone to act creatively, for everyone to receive their share of responsibility, for everyone to act very well, and at the same time, there are systems in my organization or in this family , which contradict this. I actually stimulate competition, I encourage it, I declare it, and when it comes to rewards, I will reward people so that they generally become competitors. I will proceed from the idea of ​​“my defeat is your victory” or “my victory is your defeat.” One way or another, there are some little things or systems that operate in our country. You need to see if something is not going well.

00:55:37 I’m actually telling this for myself now, because I have to lead some teams. Some of them are successful, and some are not. This knowledge or this understanding is a very good tool for analyzing what is wrong. Well... why does the error occur? Where? Where is the problem? Where is it coming from? Where does it come from? Often in some small details, in our design, in something else, we emphasize values ​​that are not the ones we declare and this is hypocrisy. I could give many examples of this, in particular by our organization. On the one hand, we declare cooperation, and on the other hand, we reward those who get the highest results, and not those who, for example, involve more people in the same process. At one time we had this fever with the distribution of books. It caused a lot, a lot of harm to our organization, because it was done on the wrong principles, on the wrong values. It caused people to enter into wrong relationships with other people.

00:57:05 In almost many countries of the world, the reputation of our organization was spoiled precisely because the people who represented our organization entered into relationships with people on the streets, i.e. had to preach, entered into a “my victory is your defeat” relationship. The main thing is to take this book - it will be a blessing, it will be an eternal blessing for you. This is how people, foolishly or even with good intentions, end up destroying something important and valuable. Well, actually we are coming to the end of this skill of ours, the fourth.

00:57:57 The fifth skill, it is very short. I think we'll finish it quickly. I'll sum it all up. I told you what it takes for a person to build relationships with others correctly. The right relationship in a situation of interdependence is a relationship that is set up so that we act together and my victory will be your victory and your victory will be my victory. We don’t need to compete, we are collaborators, we cooperate together. This is a universal paradigm and, to sum it up, it is born of a mature, integral character, an abundance mentality. It grows out of a relationship based on high trust and is embodied in an agreement that effectively clarifies people's expectations. Here are all the conditions. This one sentence contains the entire formula for this relationship. I understand that this may sound too difficult for people, but in reality, it is not that difficult. It relies on a support system and is implemented through the process-based process described in Habits 5 and 6. I didn't talk about that. I didn’t say anything about the process at all, because I’ll talk about it a little later.

00:59:27 Actually, this is the formula. It will be recorded here on this slide. A formula that describes this difficult art of right relationships. In our real life, well, let's put it this way, we always have some kind of success, some kind of failure in this regard, but success accompanies us exactly as much as we implement these laws. Here again, it is born of mature, integral character, an abundance mentality, grows out of relationships based on high trust, and is embodied in agreements that make people's expectations very clear, effective. It relies on supporting systems and is implemented through the process described in Habits 5 and 6.

01:00:25 If you are thinking of putting something into practice, I have written down several tasks here, taken from this book and slightly modified. A very important material that we talked about yesterday, a trust bank is a very practical thing. A very practical thing, as we can see how it works. We need to choose three people to have relationships with that are important to us and we need to evaluate how much trust we have in this account, what balance we have left there. And think about how you can top up your account. Yesterday I spoke about six methods or six types of contributions in this regard, what we need to do in order for these relationships to become more trusting, closer. A simple thing, but a very good exercise, because we can develop the skill of constantly replenishing this account in the bank of trust. Regarding this, try to understand under what scenario you usually enter into relationships with people. I have already said that there is a certain deep psychological attitude that forces us to act according to a pattern. What kind of relationships do I have with people? Is this a “my victory is your defeat” relationship or a “my defeat is your victory” attitude? That is, in other words...

01:02:10 And then try to understand where this came from? Where is the origin of this scenario? Where did you get all this from? You may not understand it, but try to understand it anyway. If you go back to your childhood, you can often find the roots of this scenario. And try to understand. how fruitful he is in your life. Once again, the true scenario of a self-respecting winning person is a scenario that is based on the principle: I only enter into relationships that are based on respect, on the victory of the other person and on my natural victory. I don't want to get into another relationship. As much as possible I avoid other relationships. If it is not possible to avoid them, then I will show you how to do it.

01:03:15 Another important point that the author of this book talks about. He says that it is difficult to learn this by simply reading the theory, but it is easy to learn when we have before our eyes an example of a person who knows how to enter into such relationships. If we have a living example before our eyes, a person who, when entering into a relationship, can elevate others, and not betray. A person who may or may not adapt to others. A person who really learned this amazing art. The mere presence of such a person makes other people feel that they have become better people. He elevates them with his presence. If you are lucky or if there is such a person in your life, then you need to learn from him.

01:04:22 In this sense, of course, I was very lucky. My life in this sense is very successful, because I had the opportunity to meet a lot of people who, well, simply, really elevate me with their very presence. Their presence in my life is my victory. I feel that simply by the fact of their presence they elevate me, make me better, take care of me completely unselfishly. Of course, they are a source of inspiration for me and a source of understanding of how to act this way.

01:05:08 You can try to make a list of obstacles that are stopping you. Why in relationships with other people relationships go the wrong way. Why do they either go down to this level: "Okay. Okay. Do what you want. I'll give in to you." Or they follow a different scenario: “Only in my opinion, and you do whatever you want. I don’t care. I’m always right.” Try to understand what is stopping you. What problems do we have inside that are interfering? Okay, we have more. I would like you to think about some questions about yesterday's lecture, about today's lecture. Please think about it.

01:05:57 I will try to go through everything that remains very quickly. Maybe in 10-15 minutes I will [master] skill 5, because in reality, let’s say, this is to a lesser extent a skill. If all those things that I talked about before, habit No. 1, habit No. 2, habit No. 3, habit No. 4, can be learned, then this can be learned, but it’s much more difficult. You either have it or you don't. Although you can still learn this. I'll say a little about this, but it will be a fairly short story. To understand this material properly, training is needed. This is more of a training material than a lecture material, so I won't go into too much detail on it.

01:06:59 The fifth skill sounds like this: “First strive to understand, and then strive to be understood.” What does this skill describe? It describes the principles of empathic communication. I know that none of you know what empathic communication is, very few of you, but I will now give a definition. Trusting communication, opening the heart in accordance with our philosophy [Shivarutu] Goswami, a theologian of our tradition of the 15th century, 16th century, he said that this is one of the most important manifestations of love. Learn to open your heart and listen to how another person opens his heart to us. This fifth skill is exactly about this, about how you need to open your heart and, most importantly, how you need to accept or listen to the person who has opened his heart to you. An important thing, however, I crumpled it a little.

01:08:15 Empathy is a definition. This is an understanding of the emotional state of another person through empathy, penetration into his subjective world. Different authors explain the etymology of this word in different ways: someone says the German word “penetration”, someone says the Greek word “empatio”, which means “empathy”. In essence, this is the ability to tune in to another person, to the emotional wave of another person. I [sign] lay down this principle that this is a gift, but nevertheless, if we are tuned in to another person, we can develop this innate ability. In principle, this is the gift of “empatio”. Actually this fifth skill is very simple. You've probably encountered it very often. This is essentially a situation when two people enter into a relationship with each other, one asks some questions, and the other immediately, without understanding or understanding something, begins to give him advice.

01:09:27 Relationships with people are always relationships of some kind of help, support for each other, but often people try to treat each other without understanding it. Example. Funny example Covey gives. He says. Imagine you came to the ophthalmologist and said: “Doctor, I’ve begun to see something poorly.” The optometrist says, "Oh! I have a great, great instrument that will help you see. It's on my nose." He takes off his glasses and hands them to you. You put on these glasses. He didn't do anything else but just handed over his glasses. You say: "Doctor, I can't see anything through these glasses." He says, “Are you stupid or what? It helps me. [Laughs] I see perfectly. You just never... you just pretend. This is a great tool, it will help you see. Wear these glasses and don’t pay any attention to all this nonsense. You'll get used to them eventually."

01:10:33 But the point is that a person cannot be given our glasses. This is the mistake that we very often make in our relationships with other people, when we begin to give them advice based on our own autobiography, without understanding what the other person needs. This principle of epmatic listening means that we first try to properly understand the other person, feel him, i.e. give him a real diagnosis. When we do this, really try to hear a person, then such a person begins to experience the deepest trust in us. This is one of the most powerful methods to increase the balance in our trust balance, increase the balance in our trust account. If we just don’t try to immediately say something to a person, but try to hear the person and understand the person. The trouble is that we are taught to read, write, speak, but we are never taught what to do? Listen. We never learn to listen.

01:12:03 Well, here, once again, you need to clearly understand that in no case is this empathic listening that will be discussed - not a technique, not a method of manipulation. Sometimes people use this as a trick, and it's very bad. Empathy means my sincere desire to understand you, my sincere desire to tune in to your wavelength, my sincere desire to understand what you really want to tell me. Very often, in relationships with each other, people say one thing, but mean something completely different. And other people listen to them, and they only hear words. They don't hear what's behind the words. What.. What does the person really want to say. Here. Actually, what I want to say here is that I open my heart to you, that I come to you and try to lay out everything that is on my heart. We want this, right? A person wants, he needs to confess to someone, to reveal to someone, to tell what is in his heart, to relieve himself. People love it, right? People love, they like it when they open their hearts, but for this to happen in reality, for trusting and close relationships to occur based on this, on the fact that one opens their heart, the other listens, accepts it, it is very important that the person receiving an integral character so that he does not have this duality in life. To do this, a person who accepts or understands another must allow himself to open up to the influences of the other person.

01:14:14 Two people met and this is actually a unique thing - two souls met. One may occupy a higher position, another may occupy a lower position - that is normal, but the one who occupies a higher position, it is his duty to understand the one who has come to him, and when I try to understand this, it means that I am revealing myself his influence. If I am closed, if I am afraid that another person will influence me with his views, his maya, his illusion, his problems, I will never be able to truly understand him, I will not be able to help him, I will not be able to elevate him. The trouble is that when we talk to people, we usually wonder when they will stop talking. He starts there, and we think that he’s been talking for so long, but I already understood everything. We already have the recipe ready.

01:15:24 He said two words, and we already know everything, we are already waiting to give him good advice, right? A person either waits for himself to speak, or he prepares for what to say. When we listen to another person, we are not really listening to him, we are preparing for what we will say to him. Have you replaced yourself with this? [Laughs]. We wait for him to stop talking, and when he stops speaking, we have already prepared our speech. Tired of it. [Laughs]. Why? Because people by nature are self-centered, as a rule. Accordingly, very often our interlocutor does not have the feeling that he was heard. This boy here shows us the common attitude towards what others tell us. And here. This. I wanted to talk about empathy first. Okay, okay, let's take turns.

01:16:41 There are four types of listening, let’s say, starting with the most, with the lowest type of listening. Two people met. One person speaks, and the other essentially doesn’t want to listen to him, doesn’t want to listen to this nonsense and he, of course, is present there, but in fact he is already completely closed, ignores him, that is, he is simply closed, thinking about something of his own and waits for him to finish speaking so he can say something smart in response. Second. A slightly deeper level of listening is pretend listening. Sometimes it is not possible to avoid these types of listening. I have a friend who talks a lot. He calls on the phone and I know it for at least half an hour. In this case, well, as a rule, the person hangs up and sometimes picks up and says: “Uh-huh.” [Laughs.] Then he says something. That one: "Yeah." [Laughs.] Because he knows that there is a monologue going on and a monologue, he absolutely does not need strong approval, but periodically it is necessary, because if he is there at some point he shouts: “Can you hear me?” "Yes". [Laughs.] This is also a feigned form of relationships or communication between people. Hearing.

01:18:30 There is a selective hearing. A little bit deeper kind of listening. When we generally switch off. Often with children this is a form of listening. The child is chatting and we go: “Mmm-mm!” "Yeah." Here. But suddenly something interesting appeared and we are trying to hear what he is saying, maybe there is some sense in it. And finally, there is attentive listening, when I listen carefully, but unfortunately, this attentive listening is not quite what is needed in relationships between people. Attentive listening is not bad, it’s already good, it’s some kind of beginning. But careful listening very often leads to wrong relationships between people. I wanted to talk about Buddha here, but I won’t talk about Buddha. [Speaking in the hall.] This is a little aside, let’s say, but in principle it’s also a good thing that explains the mechanism.

01:19:43 Once during a sermon, when Buddha was preaching, one very influential person came to him. Now they would say sponsor. [Laughs.] A sponsor came to Buddha. This person said that I need your advice and I want to hear something from you. Buddha looked at him and said: “I won’t tell you anything.” The sponsor did not expect this, because the sponsor was used to being listened to carefully all the time. That's why he's a sponsor. He was offended, he was an influential man, he held some kind of big position. He said: “Why won’t you tell me anything?” He says, Buddha says: “I don’t want to waste time.” He says: “Why? Why waste time?” And Buddha at that moment said that there are four types of listener. There are listeners whose heads are like a pot with holes and something goes in and out. There are no problems. It went into one ear and came out of the other. The Lord the Creator provided us with two ears. [Laughs.] No problem. He says there is another category of listeners. They are like a whole pot, but turned upside down. Therefore, no matter how much you try to pour it in, it’s all crap... there’s no point. There is a category of listeners...

You go up to the fourth floor of the Tsvetnoy department store and find, between the corners of prestigious brands, a luxurious reception with a scarlet velvet curtain behind it. The first spectators are greeted by a gallant macho in dark glasses and a tuxedo - this is impresario Fyodor Elyutin, known for the projects “Cops on Fire” and. And he reports that the first rule of the “Your_Game” project is not to tell anyone anything about what will happen to you in the “red room”. Therefore, further - only vague hints and recommendations.

© Ontroerend Goed

Spectators are allowed inside about once every half hour, one at a time, like going to the dentist. But this is not scary at all; no one inside will force you to do anything. You won’t need any special knowledge or skills either. And on the way out you will also be given a secret thing. It’s better to come here without friends - the effect of the spectacle will significantly increase. Sessions are held every day except Mondays, several times until September. However, tickets sell out quite quickly, so you need to be prepared to plan your trip well in advance.

Moscow boasts an abundance of amazing theatrical events. Some of them, for example, generally . And even against such a background, where absolutely everything is available, the tête-à-tête theater format is a rarity. Occasionally, various kinds of avant-garde artists like Arseny Epelbaum or Oleg Glushkov work in this direction, but these experiences are annoyingly rare and extremely exclusive.

© Ontroerend Goed

Meanwhile, the Belgian team Ontroerend Goed has already managed to eat a dog in the field of tete-a-tete theater. In their first performance, for example, the audience was seated one by one in a wheelchair and blindfolded, immersing them in a world of heightened feelings (“The Smile Off Your Face”, 2007). Not all of the team’s hits were created for one viewer, but all of them are extraordinary; in a new performance, for example, spectators are given tablets with voting buttons, and the results of the votes determine the course of the action (“Fight Night”, 2013). “A Game of You” - this is the original title of the play - has already been performed at festivals in Edinburgh and Avignon; The Russian version differs in that it does not take place in an art cluster or theater building, but in a busy shopping center.

© Ontroerend Goed

Alexander Devrindt

Director, founder of the theater company Ontroered Goed

"When I first came here to the mall, I thought, 'Come on, seriously?' We played this performance in a variety of places - in former factories, factories, in former churches, in art spaces, but never in commercial centers. But I like this contradiction! I love this space with its high concentration of mirrors; this is very unexpected and resonates powerfully with our performance. At the same time, it seems to me that when people get inside our room, they instantly forget that they are on the fourth floor of a shopping mall.

I understand people who turn to Shakespeare or Tolstoy again and again. But I have some problem with this. I can't listen to The Rolling Stones anymore, for example. Because this is not about now. I need new music! How can you relate to what lives in the past? In principle, this is okay, many people really like conservative forms of theater, there is a large market for this kind of entertainment. But I'm much more excited about what's happening right now, what's emerging in this century, how people perceive what's happening to them, how they perceive each other. Studying all this, in my opinion, is much more interesting than inventing a new production of Shakespeare.”

Today in Moscow, a performance-impression called “Your Game” opened its premiere showings. We talked with impresario Fyodor Elyutin about why the city and we need it right here and now, about modern theater, discrediting the function of an actor and the work of a producer, thanks to whom we now know what a performance for one, made by many, is.

We met with Fyodor Elyutin (the one who brought the Remote project to Moscow) just at the moment when he announced the launch of the new project “Your Game”, but the conversation turned out not only about this mysterious performance, but also about theater in general, travel and, finally, who is an impresario, what is “high” and how to share it with the outside world.

It is customary to talk about plans for the future at the end of any conversation. But your future is coming right now - the “Your Game” project is being launched. Tell us about it - of course, what you can tell so as not to ruin the intrigue.
“Your Game” is a new project in the portfolio of our theater company Experience Factory. With the advent of the second product (the first is Remote Moscow), we are already beginning to gain material and understand what we are doing. And we are engaged in “experience”, impressions. Of course, this is theater, but in all our endeavors we are interested in a certain experience. That is, something must happen to a person. He must not just sit in the hall and watch the director work (although we also love and respect this kind of theater), but do something himself. The effect depends on its involvement. At the same time, a person himself can make a choice how much to get involved: he can do nothing, just observe. As with Remote, you can simply walk the distance without following our commands. And, probably, you will also enjoy it. But it’s completely different to play by our rules.

“Your Game” is a performance for one person. It lasts about 30-35 minutes. We only sell 5 thousand tickets - that's my goal. Limited edition. When something is limited, people mobilize and understand that everything is serious. Then we move to another city and also play there a limited number of times. Petersburg, Yekaterinburg, Rostov, Kazan and so on. Such a touring event.

Yes, is this idea yours? With moving from city to city?
Yes. I started with the play “Cops on Fire.” And touring with the guys has always been a super adventure. Going on tour with “Cops...” is another experience. (Laughs.) It's great to travel when you have a task to do. And when you have a story related to art, you can at any time approach the person you like on the street and invite him, show him something unusual. It is an incredible pleasure for me to give these experiences. It excites me. Everything I do has this DNA of wanting to uplift people. With Remote there is an even more interesting story, because you invite a person to a cemetery. (The route of the Remote Moscow promenade performance begins from the Miussky cemetery. — Approx. Buro 24/7.)

“Your Game” is a 100% experience. One-person performances are a genre that is gaining momentum in Europe. This is the so-called participatory art, where the viewer must do something himself. The most striking example is the play You Me Bum Bum Train. It existed in the suburbs of London. There is only one spectator, and 400 people are playing for him. (Pause.) You are alone, and 400 people are playing for you! You move from room to room, and in each there is some new action. This performance ceased to exist for some time, but then, due to numerous requests from viewers, it was restored. In England people want to experience something like this.

Well, they are still ready for this.
Of course they are ready for this. Plus there are different market conditions, and a generally different atmosphere. But, to be honest, I think that Russia is no worse. And sooner or later we will come to such a large-scale project. And now we will prepare a cultural revolution. Little by little, step by step. (Smiles.)

How did the idea to bring “Your Game” come about?
Actually, I had an idea for a whole festival. And “Your Game” was supposed to become part of it. But the dollar, the euro - you understand. And we work with foreign productions. That is, these are flights, fees, daily allowances. So I had to pause the organization of the festival for now - but this idea is there, there are performances that I want to present, there is a rider. In a word, take it and do it. So for now we decided to present one performance - the most mobile in terms of preparation.

Let's get back to the story: I met the Belgian production Ontroerend Goed last year at the Edinburgh Theater Festival, which was incredible in its mood. It lasts a month and takes place in Scotland. Last year I turned 30, and as a gift I decided to fly to this festival. By the way, it flew out at the peak of the pound! Why am I complaining: future producers who are interested in foreign productions need to take into account the economic situation. You are constantly faced with some additional serious expenses that are beyond your control.

In general, I left the hall, met the organizers, and thanked them very much. It is a great joy to find a pearl in the sea. She is so small, and the sea is so big. Afterwards I invited them to chat and drink coffee. I told them what I was doing in Moscow, they told me about themselves. We corresponded for a year, I was looking for an opportunity to do this project with us. It didn’t work out for a long time, but just a couple of months ago it finally worked out. Our partner in this project is the Tsvetnoy department store. This is important, now it’s not Remote, we will have space under the roof. (Smiles.) This simplifies the task. There are other complicating factors, but working in a confined space is generally somewhat easier.

I can't tell you what exactly will happen during the "Game" in our red room. If I tell you, you will understand the technique used there. For what? Just know that you will be in the room, something will happen to you, actors will work with you. And the performance will be about you. About everyone. This is very personal, and no one will know about it except you and the actor. The actors, of course, sign a non-disclosure document. Something in the red room. (Smiles mysteriously.)

For some, this is an opportunity to look at themselves from the outside. An opportunity to understand something more about yourself. We are always running somewhere. We're late. I have a meeting with you, then another meeting, then lunch with someone, and so on. Now they are taking pictures of me - and I will be able to understand how I looked from the outside during our conversation, but at no other meeting will I have such an opportunity to capture the moment. It's not even about how I look, but how I feel. Every day we meet different people. And it’s not always possible to freeze and realize something, primarily about yourself. It is very important to receive feedback about yourself. And this is exactly what the play is about.

Did you learn something new about yourself, did you understand it then, in Edinburgh?
I realized that on a non-verbal level I manage to convey what I do. I can sit and be silent, but it is still clear what I am doing. How did I realize this? You will understand for yourself after seeing the performance. This was very important for me, because it’s good when a person is clear, when he understands what he’s doing and why. From a man's point of view this is especially important. A woman can think, reflect, reflect more. And a man must understand what he is doing.Remember how Chagall did it? He stands firmly on his feet, and she flies. (Smiles.) In general, how can you understand that your performance is good?

Yes, there are always doubts.
Yes, there are always doubts, but there is always feedback. You can, of course, create “on the table”. But in the theater you always work for someone, even if you don’t read reviews or monitor opinions. For example, I read, listen, listen attentively. After all, we live in society, not in the desert, outside of society.

Tell us about those who came up with “Your Game”.
These are the Belgians, a wonderful team. I haven't seen anything from them except A Game Of You. They engage in so-called non-fiction theater. They work deeply and thoughtfully with the viewer. I spoke about them with Rimini Protokoll ( theater team that came up with the Remote project. — Approx. Buro 24/7), and they spoke very warmly about the Belgians. This was important for me, Rimini are masters after all. (Smiles.) We can already imagine how to work with foreigners, using the example of Remote. Ksenia Anikeeva and I ( producer in the team of Fedor Elyutin. — Approx. Buro 24/7) spent the whole of last summer in daily, every second contact with the Germans, and it was great. The level of their approach, professionalism, vision is fantastic. People generally don’t say: “I’ll go have a smoke!” People sit and work - if necessary, until three in the morning. When I asked them what we would do today, the answer was always the same - work. But, of course, I took them out to all sorts of events and concerts. (Smiles.) This time we were again faced with the task of warmly welcoming the Belgians and showing them this city. Show that miracles happen here too. I would like to create conditions for them in which they will be comfortable and interested in working.

Does the new project have any specific audience or is it a completely universal production?
This is interesting to those people who are ready to get involved in the process. Everything we do is intended for open-minded people who are ready to go beyond their own boundaries. If you're willing to take risks and try something new, this is for you. If you are a closed person, an introvert, then it will probably be difficult for you. But if you are an introvert who has decided that he wants to change something in his life, and realized that you want to have not three friends, but thirty-three, then this is the place for you too. This is a kind of “stretching”. And each of our performances is a training session. Without “stretching” I’m not interested. It seems to me that the meaning of human life is to grow and develop. Maybe this is pointless and we will find out about it in the end. Maybe you shouldn’t have strived to grow, but should have sat and done nothing. But all the same, until you check, you won’t know. (Smiles.)

More general question: you give lectures on current formats in the theater. In a nutshell, what is particularly relevant in performance art today and what will become relevant in the near future?
Everything I was talking about is interactive theater. A theater in which you are both an observer and a participant. Where you can make a decision. Where are you the main character? People want to move. People want to take action. People are ready for this - we just need to give them this opportunity. And we are ready to give this opportunity.This is how I feel about this market, and the world in general. I myself would like to participate in such performances. Running, dancing, moving around - this is interesting to me. And if it’s interesting to me, then it might be interesting to my friends. I have absolutely no confidence in this. (Laughs.) But it seems so to me.I see a lot. And I have a taste and understanding of the process - the so-called observation. I can quickly determine - for example, “this is cool, but you won’t sell it.” And sometimes “this is very bad, but it will be popular.” Of course, I won’t do the latter; I won’t be able to sell something I don’t get a kick out of. The impresario's job is to be responsible for what you do. Sign everything with your name.

I’ll ask a question that sincerely torments me. What role does the actor play in such a new theater?
In Remote we don’t have a single actor at all. (Smiles.)

I understand. And also in connection with this, I am trying to analyze what an actor is in modern performative formats. How important is it?
Remote completely discredits the actor's function. It shows that in order to make a play, an actor may not be needed at all. It's true, it's true. But there are other performances where there are 500 people on stage.

There are also 400 volunteer people, like You Me Bum Bum Train. This is also different.
Yes, something else. It happens this way and that. There are actors in the play “Your Game”. And that's great. But for us it is some stress. Actors get sick all the time, are late, sneeze, cough, and so on. Our task is to explain to them that they can’t be sick or late with us.

And yet, what is an artist?
Do you want to know whether this is a change unit or not? (Smiles.)

I'll try to explain. You talk about new interactive performances, but I can’t help thinking about the Eleusinian Mysteries. Of course, in modern performances there is less ritual significance, but it is all somewhere nearby.
But this was part of the life of the ancient Greeks.

Yes, it was a ritual. And theater is also a ritual, no matter what it is.
Today you can choose for yourself.

You can come and have fun, or you can take it more seriously.
Yes. And we do not force you to do anything - for example, you must come and undergo the initiation rite at a certain age. This is your game in every sense: if you want, you can play. But no, we will not insist.

And yet, does the role of the priest remain for the artist in all this action? And how does the profession change with changes in the theatrical process?
In Russia there will be no problems with this profession for another 100 years. We have so many repertory theaters that someone has to play there. I don't go there very often. But all this: “I love you!” - “I love you too, Romeo!” - is saved.

Come on, this is bad, but if we don’t talk about extremes...
However, this is also there.

Yes, but there are, for example, performances in the so-called classical theaters that are also a wow personal experience.
I do not deny. It’s just hard for me to sit on a chair for many hours, I wish I could move around.

I understand, as I also understand, that there is almost always a certain distance between the one in the chair and the one on the stage. But in good theaters, a very large spiritual responsibility lies with the priest - with the artist. Is this responsibility present in the projects you take on? In “The Game” in particular?
Certainly. But for me this is still a zone of the unknown. And I'm incredibly interested. And, to be honest, I myself will be an actor in this performance. Sometimes I will come in and do “sessions.” I will never announce this separately, but keep in mind that you can meet me. (Smiles.) I understand what the guys were doing back then in Edinburgh. And I would be curious to be in their place. My job is working with people. Communicate, find a common language with everyone. During the day I meet very different people, from different structures and different classes, and I need to talk to everyone. And the more complex a person is, the more interesting it is. "Stretching".

In order to engage in theater and new formats, what should a person know and be able to do? What should he learn?
To be honest, I don’t understand at all what they teach in production faculties in Russia. It's like learning Latin. You can probably use this in medicine, but in general it is some kind of dead matter. And the theater is what people buy tickets for now. If they buy it, it means it’s a good theater. If not, then it’s not a theater. I think so. Of course, there is a danger here of going to Broadway, which is no longer quite a theater either. A fine line. But you need to be able to maintain balance.When the guys who are studying production at GITIS ask me what they should do, I answer: “You live in Russia, where there is a unique system of repertory theaters. And this is your biggest employer. Go and cook there." Although I never worked a day in a repertory theater, I had a connection with such a structure. I realized that I wouldn’t go deep there - for me it’s too regulated, a slow car. That’s why, in fact, I created my own theater company, in which I feel great. Where I do what I like, I decide when there will be a press release and whether there will be one at all. Basically, the rules are: there are no rules. The more you are willing to experiment, the higher your chances of triumph. But there may also be a failure - you shouldn’t forget about that either. The higher the chances of failure of a project, the higher the chances of triumph. If something can fail with a bang, then you have to climb into it.But all theaters are needed, all theaters are important, so I watch what is happening. This is how a picture of the world is created. And you understand how it can be improved.

What advice can I give? If you can’t make a high-quality performance, this sometimes happens for a number of reasons: whether you didn’t have enough money or something else, I understand all these reasons perfectly well - in general, if you can’t make a good performance, then at least make a delicious sandwich at the buffet . And people will be able to forgive you for your mistake. But if your floors are dirty, the performance is so-so, and even a sandwich with weathered cervelat, then no one will want to come to you anymore. Guys, make a delicious sandwich, pour freshly squeezed juice for the viewer (buy a juicer, it costs 5 thousand!). But no. They can't do this here. But theater is everything together. The viewer is in my power from the moment the ticket is purchased. He waits, ponders, gives me energy. And I feel this energy of anticipation. Two thousand tickets sold in presale is a huge energy. Maybe no one feels it except us, but that’s enough for us.

“The higher the chances of failure of a project, the higher the chances of triumph. If something can fail with a bang, then you have to climb into it.”

In general, are there people in modern Russian theater who admire you?
Of course there is. There are a couple of favorite directors. First of all, Yura Kvyatkovsky is my legend and love. Dmitry Anatolyevich Krymov does cool things. Brusnikin's workshop. Maxim Didenko - discovered this director. I like some of the works of the Gogol Center. There are interesting and talented things. But now I mostly look not at the Russian stage, but abroad. Not because it’s not interesting here, but because what’s happening here is clear to me. I crossed the road - I have eight theaters here. And I would like to somehow get acquainted with a different view of the surrounding reality. And it’s very cool that today there is an opportunity to buy tickets - to be here today, tomorrow in New York, then in Boston, then in London. You just need money, you need to earn money and watch this world. In this sense, I am fascinated by Rimini Protokoll, who live in Berlin for a month and anywhere else the rest of the time. I look at them and feel incredibly happy. I write letters: “Well, where are you today?” And I get answers: in Rio, in Karlsruhe and so on.

It's great to travel for impressions. Some people go for food, others for more shoes, but I go for impressions. And I see how my friends are starting to do the same - someone buys tickets to Baryshnikov, someone flies to Robert Wilson. This is great. And even if I find myself in a city not for work, the first thing I do is look on the Internet to see what is happening today, what show, what performance. I can roughly imagine what will happen in a restaurant, hotel or even in a club. But what the theater can prepare for me is always interesting. I come to the theater to be surprised. To look at life, at the world, at the environment differently. Theater for me is the highest art. This is the text, this is the music, this is the scenography, this is the artist. Everything is in one place, and everything should work quickly and clearly. Become one.

You call yourself an impresario. What do you mean by this concept?

Impresario - from the word impress. Surprise. So I am busy surprising people around me. And I put my name under the production - this is my mark of quality. I saw it - I like it. If you like me, you'll probably like this too. This is the path of a sapper. You need to be careful. I really hope that I will live up to the expectations of my viewers.

It turns out that you have broader functions than a producer.
Yes, the producer is just doing things. And I do things and also run around with a tambourine. (Laughs.)

Once journalists defined your role in the theatrical process as the role of Lopakhin. What role would you give yourself?
I invented this role for myself - this is an impresario. And he himself became her hostage. (Smiles.) I don't need anything else. I like this man.

It turns out that you write a play yourself in which you have such a role.
It is true, of course.

When there's a festival and they bring Robert Wilson or Robert Lepage for one day, it's impossible to get in! Tickets appeared - and then they were gone! A bunch of people came, looked, and that was it. And even if it was incredible, it is beyond the reach of most people. But I want people to be able to see the project for 1.5-2 thousand rubles. Look, think, come again! I want it to be, as they say, long term. This is interesting to me from a production and human point of view. I have never worked for any company or been an employee. I am mobilizing in the project. And when it can last a long time, it is a special story.

How did you get used to entering a new project?
When a new project starts, I cut everything off. It’s great that Your Game is launching now, since we conducted a serious analysis of what was in the first season of Remote. I say the word Remote probably three hundred times a day. That's why it works that way and is so successful.But in general, you can’t imagine what kind of requests and offers sometimes come... It’s great that you are in demand, that they ask you about something. But sometimes they ask this! (Laughs.) The only client we managed to do something cool with was Nike. They requested an audio tour to test drive the new sneakers. This was actually the world's first shoe test drive! We mobilized and released the project in a month - we ended up playing 30 shows. It was great, but other offers are very strange. However, maybe time will pass and people will realize what we are doing.

How would you define the ultimate goal of Remote in Moscow?
So that people look differently at their city and at themselves in this city. That's all.

How do you see the future of the project?
Only light. (Smiles.) In principle, I am a sociable person, but thanks to Remote, I quickly reached the level of five thousand friends on Facebook. And I communicate with very different people, very different people come to me... I met an incredible number of interesting people - for me this is perhaps the most important thing. I'm glad that Remote evokes more positive emotions. And I’m glad that people come with good words.

You brought the most successful promenade performance to Moscow. How do you think the promenade theater format can develop on our territory?
Elementary can develop: there are a million topics and subjects. You can talk about houses, the weather, you can read poetry. It's a matter of stubbornness. And people must have the courage to do something, must take responsibility and bear risks. The promenade is great. You can do it either in the forest or in a sauna. Am I interested in doing this? While I have something to do. Will we be doing this in the future? We will, of course. If with the Belgians, then with the Belgians, with the Germans, then with the Germans. But with yourself - no. For now, we don’t want to invent anything ourselves. That is, of course, I think through every project - something can always be improved. And it's not a matter of content. It's a wrapper issue. And we have the expertise to improve even European projects done at a high level. Essentially, we work so that people come and say: “Cool!”

It says on your website that you are working on a book. This is true?
Yes it's true. There she lies. ( Shows a folder with a printed multi-page file with color notes. — Approx. Buro 24/7.) It’s called “The Quantum Experience of Theatrical Producing.” I won't show you anything else.

What is this book about and for whom? Because “Quantum experience of theatrical production” are some magical and not fully understood words.
Undoubtedly. You know, everything I do is magic. All this should be incomprehensible, just like my speech and my diction. And you can only catch some vibrations - and if you like them, then everything is right. And not because I can’t speak clearly and understandably, but it’s just more interesting to me. Do you understand? (Smiles.) To be honest, even my mother doesn’t always understand me. He says: “Fedor, can you slow down?” It’s difficult for me and traffic police officers to talk. They always think that I... (Smiles.) We have to explain: “Guys, it’s just temperament.” I just think quickly, speak quickly, act quickly. They answer: “You are still driving fast.” This can happen too!

But, apparently, in the near future we will be able to unravel something thanks to your book.
Yes, we are already in the final stage, in the layout. Essentially, this is a book about how to do something without having anything. Exciting process. There was just some idea: maybe bring Remote to Moscow. And now we’re sitting and talking about this for an hour. There are business cards, stickers, equipment—something you can touch. Everything seems to be working. I must say that the book turned out to be motivational. But who doesn’t need good motivation these days: “Hey, everything will work out, don’t worry!”The quantum thing is that it worked for me, but even if you repeat the same thing step by step, there is no guarantee that you will not fail. Fortune, fate, luck are always needed - call it what you want. I don't know where to get this from. But in any case, the project is 90 percent of the team's hard work. And we have a powerful team: all the guys who were in this office simply believed that the project could take place.What guarantees can there be that you will go out into the street and everything will turn out well? But there is a chance. (Smiles.)