“Ukrainian hip-hop will inevitably take off in the near future”: Lyon’s interview. “Ukrainian hip-hop will inevitably take off in the near future”: Lyon’s interview Three favorite songs by Kendrick Lamar

A few years ago, a “hip-hop church” began operating in Ukraine. It was founded by a group of rappers and breakdancers from Zaporozhye, who communicated with young people at concerts and sang songs about how God changes lives. One of the ideologists of the community was Sasha Chef, leader of the Gospel People group and author lines “Jesus is my president”.

The group also had its own hit. The highly social video for the song “Protest,” released in 2011, was not particularly popular at first, but was then re-uploaded to an unofficial YouTube channel, where it acquired the clickbait title “Clip banned by all channels” and, as a result, 11 million views. Fantastic numbers for those times.

Now Chef lives in Kyiv - and continues to move gospel music to the masses. This is the name of the team he founded, whose concert here in 2018 was attended by 600 spectators. We wanted to know more about the gospel rap phenomenon and talked to Alexander about how people at his concerts begin to repent, which Pharaoh song is his favorite and why Kanye West's music is the signature of the devil.

When they told me that there is a hip-hop church in Ukraine, I immediately imagined a monastery where b-boys live and read prayers to the beat. It's probably different.

This is not a place, but a series of events. We held them on Saturdays at the Wake Up dance center in Zaporozhye. Five years ago, when we launched, there was a dance boom in the city, and there were few places to jam. That’s why they came to battle with us. We talked with young people and also prayed for the city. This is a platform where it is easier to get to know each other, the Bible and faith.

Depending on the season, the format of the hip-hop church changed. In the summer we went out to the square, with speakers and a DJ, and held a street ministry. We had an agreement with the mayor's office. It looked something like on Khreshchatyk, where the b-boys jammed next to the “poppy” on the cardboard. Plus, we talked about what God (the speaker asked for any mention of God in his remarks to be capitalized - approx. The Flow) had done for our lives. If you walk up to a guy or girl and say, “Come to church!”, it won’t work. The guys watched our performances and saw that the youth were talented and beautiful, without smoking and beer, but with conversations about values.

- Did you gather a lot of people?

At first they gave up. Even though there were 15 people on our team, three to five new guys came to our evenings. Then it picked up momentum like a snowball. Up to 60 people in the dance hall, up to 200 at street performances.

- Did rap and church start at the same time for you?

- Music - before. From the age of 15. We had a big party: MC T, Keks, Karaty, Artik, Paravoz. We partied, danced, bombed. When they started rapping, they divided into groups. I was a member of the Power Block team.

At the age of 17, when I believed and came to church, there was already a group there. They read and prepared a couple of songs for Easter and Christmas. I’m used to the fact that you always have to be in music. I realized that through it I can influence young people. There are many groups in the States that work on this principle. Now we are pioneers of a new genre in Russian rap. We call it “gospel rap.”

- Come to church at 17. How is that?

3 years before that, my mother came to church and was transformed. She sold cigarettes and alcohol at the market. My father was not there; I had to support my younger sister and me. She swore harshly - it was the market - but after coming to church she immediately stopped. I realized that it worked and began to listen more attentively when she touched on this topic, otherwise as a child it is embarrassing to talk about God with friends. I remember that one day I got sick and had a fever. Mom came to me at night, put her hand on me and began to pray. By the morning I had completely recovered. Little by little, faith appeared in me. I began to repent, because from the age of 15 the boys and I dived into nightclubs and parties.

I remember that the day I decided to come to church, there was a struggle going on inside me. For half a day I’m sure that I’m going, and for half a day I brush it off: “What kind of church are you talking about!” All kents will be banned.” In the end, I went, but one of my friends called everyone and said: “Chef went to church. We need to save him from the sect.” In our church, in order to turn to God and repent, you had to go to the stage and pray with the pastor. Just think: I go out and see that all the kents have gathered in the hall. It would seem that I was 17 years old, but even then I realized that I was making a vital choice. I overcame the fear of what my friends would think of me. About 10 years later, this guy who called everyone together asked me for a Bible. Life crises happened to him.

- After moving to Kyiv, did you try to launch a hip-hop church here?

- Not yet. Kyiv is different. What works in Zaporozhye does not work here. The mentality of young people is different. Here we started the “Gospel to the Masses” project with the song of the same name. At the stage of preparing the video, I met people who helped organize a concert at the Bingo club (a hall with a capacity of 2 thousand people, where rock concerts are regularly held, as well as performances by Face, Pharaoh, Thomas Mraz - The Flow). We are doing a concert and about 600 people come. It was a shock for us.

- This isn’t a ticketed concert, is it?

To get to it, you had to come for an invitation. We wrote on social networks where you can get them. They wrote to me from nearby cities: “40 tickets have come out, we will arrive by bus.”

- Was it the union church that brought people?

- No, no, just young people who wanted to get in. The clip played such a role.

- If these are just young people who do not spend time in one group, then how were they able to self-organize into a bus tour for 40 people?

- They could have been in some church, I don’t know. They write to us that they want to come. We're just glad.

- The Gospel People and Gospel to the Masses projects sound as if you are well aware of what is happening in the genre. Is it difficult for you to listen to new rap?

- It's like with football. You want to learn sports techniques - and it doesn’t matter who the teacher is. You are adopting a technique, not a philosophy of life. Therefore, we draw inspiration from life examples and the Bible, and we note the musical and technical basis from our artists.

In the States, artists are divided into two types. For some, God is part of the repertoire. Just one of the topics besides girls and smoking. And there are those for whom faith is a way of life. And if you are an opinion leader, if you are being watched more closely, if you stumble, it will be blown up all over the world. There may be intentional setups. I heard about a preacher who always walked into his hotel room second. Someone was walking in front of him, because paparazzi and a couple of naked girls might be waiting in the room for photos. When you are influential and declare something, they want to discredit you. It was the same with Christ.

- So, about Kanye. The man calls himself “Yeezus” and releases the song “I am God.” How do you like that?

This is the handwriting of the devil. The devil in heaven was the most important in music and praise. The Old Testament writes that he wanted to become God and thought: “I will make a similar throne nearby so that they can worship me.” For this God cast him down. Kanye West's actions are the character of the devil. Everyone who once thought: “I am great” has fallen.

- Three favorite Kendrick Lamar songs?

- “Humble”, “DNA”, “Element”. I like him in this style.

- I’m surprised that you name his most trappy, simple things.

- But I don’t know what these songs are about (laughs). Didn't get into it. I don't know English.

- There is not a word about bad things in Gospel People rap. About what you see when you go outside. It's weird to pretend it doesn't exist.

- We are now at a turning point. We are discussing how to expand our audience. We're somewhere radical gospel. It is understandable to church people, but it needs to be clear to everyone.

- Yes, and not church - quite. It's like you exist in a parallel reality.

- Each artist creates his own. Take the Yanix album. His parallel reality is girls, grandmothers, chains and brand tags.

About seven years ago there was a stage when 70% of our songs were social. At the same time, we released the “Protest” video. Then we returned to gospel music.

- Don’t you think that “Protest” is a retelling of a news release?

Oh no. We list what doesn’t suit us, and at the end we read: “There is a flame in our hearts. We don’t wait for change, we make it ourselves.” The song “Protest” has a background: in Zaporozhye there is a youth organization “Hand of Support”. With her, we did concert programs of a social nature in the districts. On the day when we performed in the most unfavorable district of Pavlo-Kichkas, the police did not receive a single case of drunken, beaten or robbed people. They say for the first time in many years.

In another district, Osipenkovsky, we held a concert in a courtyard with a large platform, where we set up a stage and sound. Directly opposite the house where there was an alcohol outlet. Everyone knew - both the police and alcoholics - that they made burnt vodka there and sold it. We came there, read songs, and the leader of the youth organization, a believer, began to say directly into the microphone that the owner of this business will have a curse, because because of him people die and burn. And then he prayed, saying, “Lord, let this point close.” The store owner immediately flew in with a scandal: “Why are you praying for something so bad?” As a result, this point closed after two weeks. We saw that if you are not silent, but speak, there is always feedback. After these actions we wrote “Protest”, but first we did the deed.

- In this song you protest against gay culture. Why?

- This is a bad culture. Culture of extinction. God originally planned man and woman so that they could have a continuation. Gay culture is based on the fact that gays take into families children who were not born to them. And these children can also grow up with a disturbed psyche and will have unhealthy relationships.

“You don’t have statistics to back it up.”

I don't agree. If, for example, a child, a guy, lived in a family where the father did not respect his mother and drank, then there is a high probability that he will do the same. Because when you grow up, you absorb everything like a sponge. And when children grow up in such families, they absorb the fact that such relationships are the norm.

- These are completely different things.

- Are you for it?

- I am for a person to be happy - no matter with a man or a woman.

- Well, if you show me happy gays...

- Yesterday I walked around Kyiv. I saw two completely happy guys walking arm in arm.

- It is now! Everyone has their moment. But 10 years will pass... I heard that gays have at least 40 partners in their lives. This is statistics. When we held protests, the leader of the youth organization monitored it all. And gays are depressed people. Such relationships take a toll on the psyche. Scientists prove that this is a disease.

- Are gays not children of God?

- God loves all people, but God hates sin, and homosexuality is a sin. In the Old Testament, such a sin was punishable by stoning. In the New Testament it is written like this: He gave the people who knew God, but did not give him glory as God, a depraved mind. So women began to lust after women, and men began to lust after men.

There is a theme that gays come to church, and after a while they stop being gay. But this happens very rarely.

- I saw a quote from Matthew on your Facebook about why you shouldn’t judge others. Why do you judge?

If we're talking about people, that's one thing, but if we're talking about culture as propaganda... Well, here's a gay pride parade. They are made in honor of victory. In sports, for example. What have gays won that they want to march in the parade? After all, this is propaganda, no matter what. There is a gay manifesto on the Internet and it is very aggressive. Someone will say: “People love each other - so be it.” I personally don't care. Well, you want each other, fuck yourself at home. But according to the laws that they want to put forward now, ordinary families are disadvantaged more, because so many privileges are given in defense of gays that you are simply afraid to breathe in their direction.

I remember during the period of Decl’s popularity he was asked on air why he was so opposed to the LGBT topic. And he answered soooo correctly: “Well, just think about it. This is shit!” Well, handsome, he took the truth and chopped it down. Well, what kind of love is this?

- Did the “Protest” video become your main hit?

One guy we later talked to posted the video on his channel and called it “Clip Banned by All Channels.” For some reason, the video started getting millions of views. In the first year - about a million, and then - a million per month. 11 million accumulated.

It's 2011. YouTube has never been so popular. Nobody thought about monetization. Neither Potap nor Irina Bilyk could boast of such figures. Then the video was banned. I guess this happened because we gave it to the ELLO video channel. Now I'm thinking why. We did it - and okay.

- What will you do if you hear that Face is playing in your daughter’s headphones?

- (laughs for a long time) I’ll smile and offer to throw away this rubbish. Believers do not have the goal of categorically prohibiting. Jesus didn't do that. Jesus communicated, he asked leading questions: “Why do you like this? What do you get out of it? If my daughter picks up a knife, I don’t yell at her to drop it or she’ll cut herself. I teach her how to cut bread.

She usually dances to the songs of the group Time and Glass. This is her top. She likes everything so modern and youthful. We are now visiting my wife’s parents, and dad likes to play old music, something about slow music about love. The daughter says to him: “Grandfather, your music is hilarious.” That is, for her it is no longer music. My goal is not a ban, but the need to explain why it is bad and to give the person a choice.

- Do you draw conclusions about a generation by observing what music is popular?

- Music is a mirror of a generation. It's fashionable because that's how people communicate. Nowadays in music it is allowed to use obscenities and explicit shots. If earlier this was at least somehow censored, now you can sing about a burger.

I once watched the program “Let Them Talk” with Malakhov, where the teenage rock band Klimbatika participated. All their videos are covered in blood. The producer of the Gaza Strip was present on the broadcast, and he invited everyone to see how the members of this group ended up: someone drank himself to death, someone died, someone got hooked on drugs. After all, initially everything is innocent and funny, but afterwards there will definitely be fruits, because we sow it. We don't yet know what will grow out of the new generation. Partly I'm even afraid. In terms of future personnel for work, in terms of future families, fathers, mothers. I think it will be tough. I believe in the best.

If now we, the generation with a post-Soviet upbringing, see statistics according to which every third family is single-parent, where the mother raises the children herself, then what next? That’s why now I want to write songs about family values. Like Basta’s track “Papa What’s Up”. This is a company! You can see how much he loves his daughters. He understands this thrill when they are waiting for you. This needs to be instilled. But songs and news about good things sell poorly. But everyone wants black stuff and tinny stuff See. Perhaps the “Protest” clip went to the masses because the description “Clip banned by all channels” played.

- I found a recording of the Gospel People anniversary concert on YouTube. There in the caption there is the phrase: “That evening, 55 people accepted Jesus Christ by praying the prayer of repentance.”

- In the middle of the concert, I came out and gave a five-minute speech about how God has life, a great future and destiny for everyone. And he invited those who want to get to know God and live with him further to come to the stage. 55 people came out. There was a man who took them to the hall and gave them New Testaments and CDs. He did the counting.

- Can gospel rap be politically oppositional?

We have song “No to war”, it can be attributed to this genre. There are two neutral verses. About the fact that war is coming and it sucks for everyone. And our friend there is talking about how brother turned on brother. Our view at that moment is clear. We were convinced that Russia attacked Ukraine. This was not presented in direct text, we used the prototypes of Cain and Abel. Now we understand that both are good! But then they spoke as they saw. Many wrote that we are wrong, that Russia is not in Donbass. This is our view. Rap was political at first, like Public Enemy. Such topics have always been raised. Eminem seemed to be saying, “If I have something to say, I'll say it. If not, I will remain silent.” We were then burned to the quick. It was impossible to remain silent.

- Tell me this thing: Is Darwin a fool?

Why?

- Because of the theory of human origins.

- That's a theory. He had the right to make a mistake. So you can ask about Adam and Eve, are they fools for screwing up our whole lives? We would have a great life now. One preacher said that if he met Adam in heaven, he would definitely hit him.

The Ukrainian publication karabas.live spoke with Lyon, who is hard at work on his new album and predicts that hip-hop will soon take off in Ukraine. We have traditionally prepared a compilation of the most interesting moments.

About the Ukrainian audience

In order for a wide audience to pick up the material, it must be presented to them in an accessible way. Today, the Ukrainian listener has the following perception: if a rapper is from Russia, then this is some kind of big figure like Basta or Scryptonite, and if the rap is from Ukraine, then it is something in the spirit of TNMK or Tartak. This perception has settled in our heads, and we need to work with it, change it. At the same time, the Russian rap industry is largely Ukrainian. Both on the songwriting and production level.

About the hip-hop trick

Most of the world has already realized what the trick of hip-hop is. There is no artificiality or fakeness in it. The pop industry, before the rise of hip-hop, created hits with a lot of money and connections. But over time, she came to the conclusion that even if you are, relatively speaking, Katy Perry, it’s still better for you to go to the guys who rap and mix it. Make a cocktail of cleverness and brutality.

About HitWonder,Lyon label

We are building a label not in the usual sense of the word, but as a company that will be a friend of the artist. I dealt with big labels - Monolit, CD Land, Nikitin - and I know what performers lack when working with them. Therefore, when talking with an artist, I sit not opposite him, but next to him. This is an important point in the HitWonder ideology.

About songwriting

As a songwriter, I collaborate with our pop artists. And sometimes they receive orders to make a hip-hop track. But they still act autonomously; they want to do everything themselves. This will pass. You can’t suddenly start rapping like you’ve changed into new shoes. Therefore, I do not agree to do such material even for large fees. This is a substitution of concepts.

Let us remind you that Lyon recently released a song recorded with singer Sonya. The song will be included in the rapper's album "Ornament".

The headliner of which will be Decl. We decided to remember how hip-hop was born in Ukraine and asked those who saw how it all began.

Oleg “Fagot” Mikhailyuta, musician, vocalist of the TNMK group. In the 90s, he hosted the “RAP-clip” program on UT-2 and organized the In Da House hip-hop culture festival in Kharkov

Bassoon

In the 90s, the party looked motley. Few people understood what hip-hop was; the establishment treated it as a very short-term phenomenon, and typical representatives of residential areas were drawn to something new and honest.

Hip-hoppers wore tracksuits, wide pants, caps, and all their clothes were a couple sizes too big.

The most eccentric ones put chains around their necks - ordinary iron chains, and if they managed to break off a Mercedes badge somewhere, then they immediately hung it on them

In general, they parodied movies from video stores as best they could. I recently even found in the rubble at home a T-shirt and superstars, which I bought back in 1996 and in which I hosted the “RAP-Clip” program.

My favorite band at the time was Das EFX. It seemed to me that these guys were the embodiment of a complete denial of showbiz: they played primitive and hard music, were dressed in black, swore every word, spat at the camera and were the complete opposite of the shiny tight pants and painted eyeliner of the rock idols of that time.

The most vivid memory is how in 1994 we managed to structure the hip-hop movement in Ukraine through the TV program “RAP-Clip” and create the festival of hip-hop culture In Da House, around which everyone who breathed hip-hop united.

It was the first and only hip-hop festival at that time in the post-Soviet territory. Groups from all over Ukraine came to Kharkov for In Da House

We listened to the material and gave the best the stage. And then they talked about all this in the “RAP-clip” - the broadcast on UT-2 allowed us to go into a large number of houses. In 1995, even Mikhei premiered at our festival the then-unrecorded “Bitch-Love” - solo with double bass.

If we talk about the modern hip-hop crowd, then everything is cyclical and repeats itself in a new round and in a slightly new form. But the essence, as in that joke about swans, remains the same: “Dad, where are these swans flying?” - “To hell, son, everything in this world is going to hell.”

Mikhail Dikun, formerly DJ Misha Mechanic, was an organizer of hip-hop and R&B parties, a resident of the clubs R`n`B Cafe, Forsage and others.

Mikhail Dikun

The Kyiv hip-hop crowd of the 90s had everyone: both “strays” who joined for the season, and those who could be met for years in clubs, at open airs, in the neighborhood and on basketball courts. Everyone was interested in everything, collected information bit by bit, pulled out rap albums from nowhere and rewrote them.

Everyone dressed terribly back then - mostly in second-hand stores. But they still tried to have at least some attribute of hip-hop culture brought from the States, or at least fan merch: a Public Enemy T-shirt, a House of Pain pendant or a Cypress Hill baseball cap. Then, of course, baggy jeans of modern tailoring were difficult to grab, but quite possible, and therefore in Kyiv everyone looked more or less decent.

There was no difference between rappers, breakers, DJs, graffiti artists and others - everyone did everything at the same time.

No one focused on one thing, which is why the quality suffered: the dancing was lousy, the reading was not very good, the graffiti was also not very important

Well, there was no Internet to look it up as needed.

There were almost no tattoos: tattoo artists back then were the same as rappers - incompetent, and they tattooed strange blue spots. Yes, and wearing a tattoo was not in trend - you were immediately identified as a prisoner or a VAD member. But they wore earrings, and even grandmothers were no longer afraid of ear piercings.

Everyone was more or less equal and familiar with each other. The beauty of those years was that, having seen some hip-hop attribute on a stranger, you could easily approach him, chat and not run into a disapproving glance. Everyone was friendly and helpful.

It’s nice to remember any concert in a club, on the Maidan (then the Adidas StreetChallenge was held annually), even against the backdrop of constant student poverty, and at that time my scholarship was 9 UAH.

Now everything is different, there is a lot of information, and I even miss the times when I had to wait for the weekend to go to Petrovka for the long-awaited collection on cassette

Today everything is fine with music and access to it - you can take a phone with the entire home music library and not carry ten cassettes and replaceable batteries in your backpack. The player does not jam the film and the headphones are of excellent quality. You can write any track in any program, and it won't be super expensive.

It's a great time to stand out and create your own product, but for some reason not enough people are taking advantage of it. Everyone is used to copying the successful, and this is the problem: when everything becomes abundant, the brain stops thinking.

Evgeniy Kibets, concert director of SENTRUM, member of the Natural Born group in the late 90s

Evgeniy Kibets

In the late 90s – early 2000s, the Ukrainian hip-hop crowd was on the rise. There were many good artists, although only a few have survived to this day. But the most important thing was the audience.

The Kiev club “Ultra” united all fans and performers. Hundreds of people gathered there every Saturday. And it didn’t matter who spoke - the main thing was the atmosphere: at that time there were no social networks and people communicated live.

The most vivid memory is going on stage in front of the capital’s clubs “Ultra” or “Toad” that were filled. Although I can’t say that something is seriously missing. It was a period that I really liked, but has remained in the past.

Unfortunately, the hip-hop scene no longer exists. There are quite a few performers. Many groups have ceased to exist over these 20 years, and new ones appear rarely and either become a production project or perform in clubs for 20-40 people.

The very concept of “hip-hop party” has disappeared, as has the thing that united it: “Ultra”, “X3M” magazine, clothing store Hip-Hop Shop #1.

Andrey Chudlya, DJ Andrew, member of TNMK, one of the first in Ukraine to start making video sets, a master of scratching and playing vinyl

Andrey Chudlya

In the 90s, hip-hop culture was underground, and its representatives were clearly different from ordinary youth. Most classified us as informal, and an ordinary walk on the Maidan could end in a brawl. So it was also extreme.

In addition to the legendary 2Pac, Onyx, Notorius Big, Cypres Hill, which everyone listened to, there was a wave of Ukrainian hip-hop, and groups such as “Killed by Rap”, “Schnel Sprechen”, “Tree of Life”, TNMK were very popular. In general, Kharkov was the leader in rap, so the above characters were the idols of the party. The group “Green Chestnuts” was popular in the Kyiv crowd.

I loved the hip-hop parties and get-togethers of that time. When you got there, you found yourself in a completely different, unreal atmosphere.

Some things - for example, finding a flyer for a party (because it costs entry) or having a drink in front of a club (because the club is expensive) - are now generally difficult to understand

The modern crowd is moving towards concerts. Well, the youth at these parties are more solvent. Now you can buy almost any kind of clothing, so the appearance has become more civilized, there are practically no freak characters.

Sergey Lion Demyanko, CEO of the HitWonder label, rap artist and sound producer. Was recognized as the best rap artist of the year at the Showtime HipHop/Rnb Awards 2008, with the support of MTV Ukraine

Sergey Lion Demyanko

Since I was born and raised in Kharkov, I observed the party from the inside: it’s not for nothing that Kharkov bears the title of Rapa City - the capital of hip-hop in our country. Kharkov had its own fashion for hip-hop - sports gopnik. The cool ones wore Nikes, and the coolest ones wore Jordans.

They tried to be like their overseas idols: Onyx, Cypress Hill, Wu-Tang, 2Pac. It was difficult to get some original clothes, so those who managed to bring something from abroad (for example, Fubu or Karl Kani) were kings.

And the main source of hip-hop clothes were second-hand stores, and most of them dressed simply ridiculous.

My favorite groups back then were TNMK and VUZV. I remember their tapes very well. At that time there was no product at this level. “Killed by Rap” and “Fog” were also popular. I still remember well the In Da House festival with headliners TNMK.

It seems to me that today we lack that originality and deficit of the genre.

There is too much information now, but back then one album came out and everyone listened to it for five years

In the United States, hip-hop has officially become the number one music. It went through many stages of development, mixing styles and branches. It seems to me that it will definitely develop in our country. Ukraine is rich in talent, and hip-hop is no exception.

Soon a simple guy from the people will come who will sweep away everyone with his rap. I believe in it.

Illustrations: Olga Liskevich